Converting from gas to electric kettle

[Henry viii]

Hi Guys,

I have a 3v system with a 80 litre gas fired kettle. I usually have 60 litres in the kettle aiming for 50 litres into the fermenter.

I'm thinking of moving to an electric system as its quieter and should be easier to control the temperature via an inkbird etc.

Does anyone have experience in making such a move? I'm guessing I will need to:

- install an element in the kettle
- install a thermowell in the kettle
- ensure my brew shed can handle the power (maybe upgrade the circuits amp size)

Couple of other questions:

- what size element would I need to ensure I can raise the temp from mash temp to boiling? 4500 w?
- any issues with the distribution of the heat via a single element eg scorching of the wort?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Dave

 

[Hangover68]

I have only ever used electric after converting a 40ltr pot using a 2200W element, you will need 2 i expect to get that volume up to boiling temp.
You may even need to use a 15a circuit for it.

 

[Henry viii]

Any probs with scorching or uneven heating?

 

[Dave70]

To be clear, I'm no electrician, but I was a plumber back in the day, and I think a run of the mill HWS runs about 4500w at around 20 amps.
but thats hard wired and running its own breaker - though I've seen them hooked up to heavy power cords in smaller, portable applications.
To get a rolling boil in a respectable time frame I'd imagine you'd need a 15 amp power point installed and the shortest extension lead running the heaviest gauge wire you could get your hands on.

Elements for water heaters are inexpensive (depending on the type) and freely available. I can only assume since some folk use immersion heaters / heat sticks they would be also suitable. You'll just have to come up with some way to bolt it to the vessel as they generally screw straight into the storage unit itself. No biggie.
Obviously you'll need to find some way to control it, and avoid electrocuting yourself.

 

[Hangover68]

Any probs with scorching or uneven heating?

No not so far in the 4 years ive been using it.

 

[Henry viii]

Thanks. I was planning to drill a hole in the side of the kettle for the element and another hole for the thermowell.

Control would be via temp controller from Kegland or similar.

 

[Feldon]

My 2 cents from non-electric brewer.

Regarding scorching of the wort when boiling, this can be avoided by not using elements with too high watt density (= the wattage of the element divided by the area of its active heating surface).
I've read that 45 watts/inch is a good watt density for boiling wort, but I have no idea if that's a good number.
High watt density elements are short, whereas low watt density elements of the same wattage will be longer. Low watt density elements that are folded back on themselves to fit in the kettle can still scorch because heat can become concentrated between the two opposing surfaces. Elements that run around the inner circumference of the vessel are better able to disperse their heat freely into the wort.
Check out this link for understanding watt density: Do Not Overlook Watt Density

Think of using two lower wattage elements than one big one. If you have only one and it blows you’re stuffed. With two you might still get to a boil but it will take longer. An over-the-side portable element is also a useful back up and can help get the wort up to the boil quickly, then the installed elements can maintain the boil.

Element surfaces can be hard to clean. Elements installed with tri-clamp fittings are easy to remove for scrubbing/soaking if they do get some scorched wort on them. Carry-over scorching can impart burnt flavor to the next brew.

You can get bendable elements that you can configure (once) to the shape/radius of your pot.

I remember a commentary on here years ago (by Ross?) saying that stainless elements are less desirable that the plain black metal ones. Can’t remember the reasons why.

I also remember reading advice that running an element at its designed max wattage is better for its longevity than running it at reduced wattage. Another reason why two (or more) lower wattage elements might be better than one high wattage element that needs to be wound back to prevent boil overs.

Get a sparky to check out your electrical installation and opt for additional shock prevention measures that he can recommend.

Good luck.

 

[Henry viii]

Appreciate your 2 cents worth (reckon with current inflation its gotta be worth more!)

 

[bdkelly.nz]

I've recently purchased a system capable of boiling 60L and it only has a standard 3kw element. The seller claimed that he never had a problem with scorching and I believe him as I have seen some of his brews. The vessel is well insulated so has no trouble coming to the boil. My plan is to install one of Keglands 3.6kw versions which can still work on a 15amp circuit. The 3kw is about 12.5amps so still needs a 15amp circuit. I haven't decided how I will control it yet? I like the look of Auber's Digiboil.
If you go any higher than 3.6 you will need a 32amp circuit. Better to install two element and connect them to to separate circuits in your shed. If they were 10amp circuits then you would need to keep the elements below 2.4kw, once you were at a boil you could probably disconnect one. Don't know where you get smaller ULWD elements though, although I see lots of people using normal ones with no problems.

 

[Henry viii]

Why would you need a Digiboil to control it? Couldn't it just be turned and off by the wall switch (or a switch on a power board) and temp control via temp controller?

Approx how quick can you boil 60 litres with the 3kw element?

 

[Grmblz]

DIY Controller Kit Large Box 3600 Watt All Stainless Element, Ultra Low Density

 

[akx]

I was in a similar boat and just went with the 65 L brewzilla. I usually still use my large Esky mash tun because I can get higher gravity/ higher efficiency but have done a couple no sparge single batches which is a really fast brew day and nice to have less cleanup. I looked at all the different parts to upgrade my kettle, and setting up proper PID controls and put the whole thing in the 'too hard' basket. I figured the amount of extra time it'd take wasn't worth it for me. Good luck! All electric brewing is great.

 

[mofox1]

Have a look through the electric brewery guides, heating element here: Heating Elements

I followed the whole guide pretty closely when doing my electric brewery setup. The 5500w element is just ok for 70L boils, but I find my voltage is usually around the 225 - 230V mark, meaning the actual wattage is more like 4800w.

As others have mentioned, the low watt density elements are the go. I don't find them too hard to clean in place, I just soak them in perc for a bit before scrubbing.

 

[mofox1]

Why would you need a Digiboil to control it? Couldn't it just be turned and off by the wall switch (or a switch on a power board) and temp control via temp controller?

Approx how quick can you boil 60 litres with the 3kw element?

For a boil kettle mostly what you want is on or off. BUT - it's also very handy to get it to bring to 95°C or so and hold it there while filling from mash tun.

60L @ 3kw would definitely need good insulation for a boil!

 

[clickeral]

I've got a 70L kettle that I have 2x 2200w elements (on two 10amp circuits) ideally you want 2x2400w if you can.

Better still a 2400 and the a 3600 on a dedicated 15amp circuit

 

[billygoat]

I’ve had an electric fired brewery for about 15 years.
I only have about 35L in the kettle at the start of the boil.
I have two x 2Kw elements installed, not low density elements.
They are controlled by a Sestos PID controller in manual mode, through a solid state relay. I usually run the controller at 70% output which gives a nice rolling boil.
I use a spray bottle with citric acid in it, give the elements a spray, leave for a few minutes, and then give them a light scrub.
I have never had any scorching either.

 

[bdkelly.nz]

Why would you need a Digiboil to control it? Couldn't it just be turned and off by the wall switch (or a switch on a power board) and temp control via temp controller?

Approx how quick can you boil 60 litres with the 3kw element?

Well I assumed you would need some way to control it? I was thinking that the Digiboil could also be used to control the temp in the HLT? Am I overthinking it.
I haven't used the system yet and the previous owner didn't seem to have any controller, maybe the 3kw doesn't need it as it is just enough to maintain a boil.
Maybe I could fit a 3.6kw element, it will need a new fitting, and swap out the 3kw with a 2kw that I have. Run them on separate circuits and switching off which ever one needed to maintain the boil.
Maybe I should reserve any decisions until I have run a brew through the system as it is.

 

[mic]

i did opposite. went from electric to gas for everything except 50L hot water tank. Couldnt be happier

 

[Grok]

What about induction setup for a kettle, any good?

 

[bdkelly.nz]

I've done a couple of brews now and the 3kw boils 50l in a reasonable time but it definitely needs something to throttle it back as it really gets a good boil going. I was recently in Melbourne and purchased one of Keglands 3.5kw element. It is definitely a lower watt density than the one I have so should be better. Will need a controller though. After a bit of research have decided to use a SCR for that. There are plenty of them on Aliexpress for not much money, my thought is to get a 10,000 watt one, just to be sure that it has the capacity. There is not a lot of difference between the 4,000 watt ones and the next ones up being 10,000 watt, the wattage shouldn't make any difference because the way they work is to clip the phase thus reducing the voltage and amps is just whatever the load is.