My Rogers Clone Recipe Tastes Great

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Finally having a go at this attempt, though it's going to be cubed (re: 20min additions) so it'll be a while before it gets to drinking:

Ramjet Ale
22.5 L
OG=1.040
FG=1.013 (75% atten.)
IBU=24.1
EBC=21.3
alc=3.8%

1.155kg (28.9%) MO (TFFM)
1.15kg (28.8%) Vienna (Wey)
0.8kg (20%) Wheat (Wey)
0.4kg (10%) Munich 2 (Wey)
0.2kg (5%) CaraPils (Wey)
0.2kg (5%) Med Crystal (Simpsons)
0.025kg (0.6%) Midnight Wheat (Briess)
0.07kg (1.8%) Acidulated (Wye)

10g (0.3g/L) EKG (4.5%) @ FWH
3g (0.4g/L) EKG (4.5%) @ 20mins
15g (0.6g/L) Cascade (7.8%) @ 20mins
10g (0.4g/L) Galaxy (13.4%) @ 20mins
20g (0.8g/L) of Cascade & 15g of Galaxy dry hop

(** 20mins additions are to be cube-hopped - should capture more of the hops elements)

Mash: 70/72/78 for 30/15/2
(slightly as per manticle's suggestion. ditched the 55°C step to make it easier, and i wasn't sure how long it'd take me to get to 70°C from 55°C, so i might've had the beta-amylase going at it for too long)
EDIT: this was instead kinda ripped off manticle's mash schedule for a mild ale - he's an endless fount of pilferable info, that guy! :lol:

1.3g CaSO4 + 2.5g CaCl + 1.3g MgSO4 into Mash
1.1g CaSO4 + 2.1g CaCl + 1.1g MgSO4 +0.3g Citric acid into Sparge
0.5g CaSO4 + 2.5g CaCl + 1.3g MgSO4 into Boil

yeast = US05, American Ale, 1272, etc.
... though i have a batch of WLP-028 Scottish Ale ready to go at the moment...
---------------------------------------

Another largish change was to drop the Midnight Wheat a fair bit to drop the colour down from ~28 EBC to ~21 EBC. I did this because i had one of my other beers last night (an APA) and it was almost identical in colour to the Rogers i had next to it, and it was meant to come in at 21.1 EBC.

Edit: Mash when in at 68°C for no apparent reason, so a few minutes getting it up to 70°C. Then when i returned after the 30mins was up, it'd dropped back down to 68.5°C. Currently sitting at 72°C for 20mins...

Brew day cockup was a large boil over as I stepped away for a few minutes.
Green crud everywhere, from the 10g of EKG used for the FWH.
Tossed in my remaining 5g EKG into the boil to compensate. Just need to adjust my 20min additions now.
Fingers crossed!

********* !!! [emoji30]

Ahh nooooooooooes. But hey at least you got a cube in the end albeit going to be hard to warranty your recipe from a hops perspective. So we both cocked up our most recent attempts....... Looks like will need to brew it again, how about a joint brew at my place for the next one and go a cube each? Two of us watching the brew, what could go wrong!? Haha

If it's any consolation, I was bottling a super dark (diesel black) stout last night which was smooth sailing until I knocked a full longneck with the cap lightly sitting on top awaiting capping off my table onto the concrete floor, assumed it smashed and picked up the other two bottle That were spilling on the table, only to realise the thick coopers longneck did not smash and the lovely stout was spilling out over the floor, my carpet tiles, clean kegs and bottle storage cardboard boxes. Was a fair cleanup :-(

 

[mofox1]

Brew day cockup was a large boil over as I stepped away for a few minutes.
Green crud everywhere, from the 10g of EKG used for the FWH.
Tossed in my remaining 5g EKG into the boil to compensate. Just need to adjust my 20min additions now.
Fingers crossed!

********* !!! [emoji30]

And it will probably be the best (never to be replicated) Rogers clone ever.

 

[technobabble66]

Ahh nooooooooooes. But hey at least you got a cube in the end albeit going to be hard to warranty your recipe from a hops perspective. So we both cocked up our most recent attempts....... Looks like will need to brew it again, how about a joint brew at my place for the next one and go a cube each? Two of us watching the brew, what could go wrong!? Haha

If it's any consolation, I was bottling a super dark (diesel black) stout last night which was smooth sailing until I knocked a full longneck with the cap lightly sitting on top awaiting capping off my table onto the concrete floor, assumed it smashed and picked up the other two bottle That were spilling on the table, only to realise the thick coopers longneck did not smash and the lovely stout was spilling out over the floor, my carpet tiles, clean kegs and bottle storage cardboard boxes. Was a fair cleanup :-(

Noooooooooooooooooo!!!
Waste of lovely stout PLUS a terrible mess to cleanup/unstain. Not good!

Hopefully between the 2 versions we've done we'll be able to nail it for next time. So a double batch at yours might be just the ticket!
I'm sure those kegs of yours won't tempt a visit from Mr Cockup....

I reckon the main question that remains is whether we stick with the Munich. I think it'll make a nice beer, but I'm having doubts that it's in the original. The one I had on Saturday seemed to lack those deeper maltier elements that Munich contributes to.
Oh, and getting the hops right. Minor technicality.

We shall see!!

 

[Rosscoe]

Surely they need some crystal in there to achieve the colour that it is

Since when?

Glad you fellas are enjoying playing around with this one so much. Trying to purely replicate colour over flavour I've found can be a bit of a trap, but I can't recommend a spot of caraaroma and a good decoction mash highly enough for a shot at something like this.

Enjoy and good brewing

 

[kwinchee]

CRYSTAL!!! I rushed, had planned on putting it in, modified recipe below! I'll still keep Wheat out so we can compare batches. Also deciding to add the Galaxy Hop Shot (courtesy of Hop Dealz Aus) into this to try it's effect.


Beersmith calcs my mash recipe itself, which ends up varying from 79 to 90% each batch and I can't seem to work out what changes it. I've kept my BREWHOUSE efficiency set to 75%, but something modifies the mash efficiency unbeknownst to me. I'm getting close to my numbers recently by keeping my brewhouse efficiency set to 75%. But don't understand how my mash efficiency can change if I am not changing anything I am doing? Is it simply the types of grains (ie. some roasted won't have as much extract from them so reduce the mash efficiency)?




Roger Mild MKII


Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 21.00 l
Boil Size: 29.60 l
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 26.00 l
Final Bottling Vol: 19.00 l
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
Date: 24 Jan 2016
Equipment: 3V RIMS Rig - Single Batch
Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 89.3 %

Ingredients Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.50 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) 43.6 %
0.75 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) 21.8 %
0.75 kg Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) 21.8 %
0.17 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) 4.9 %
0.17 kg Crystal, Medium (Simpsons) (108.3 EBC) 4.9 %
0.10 kg Wheat, Midnight Roasted (837.3 EBC) 2.9 %

20.00 g East Kent Goldings (EKG) [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min 10.7 IBUs
15.00 g Cascade [7.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min 3.8 IBUs
15.00 g Galaxy [13.20 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min 7.1 IBUs
10.00 g Galaxy [11.90 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days 0.0 IBUs HOP LIQUID SHOT STRAIGHT INTO KEG (mL's TBC)


0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins)
0.50 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 mins)

1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35.49 ml]



Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Original Gravity: 1.038 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.011 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 3.5 %
Bitterness: 21.6 IBUs
Est Color: 24.3 EBC

Mash Profile
Mash Name: English Mild
Sparge Water: 16.45 l
Sparge Temperature: 78.0 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE
Total Grain Weight: 3.44 kg
Grain Temperature: 20.0 C
Tun Temperature: 20.0 C
Mash PH: 5.20

Mash Steps Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 10.22 l of water at 78.1 C 70.0 C 30 min
Mash Out Add 9.38 l of water at 88.3 C 78.0 C 5 min
Sparge: Fly sparge with 16.45 l water at 78.0 C


Mash Notes: Full body for lighter ABV% beers

Notes
Dry hop Galaxy with Liquid Hop Shot (x mL's into keg)

Bravo!!!! This is an amazing recipe I just used 100g of Chocolate Wheat in place of the midnight
And Brewed it in a BIAB rig with recirc, I didn't adjust the grain amounts due to laziness
And I ran out of galaxy so didn't do the liquid shot/dryhop, which definitely would have helped finish it off

So stoked with this brew

 

[earle]

Glad it worked out for you with the choc wheat. I brewed a very close version of this on Saturday but with 100g choc wheat as well. Very much looking forward to trying it. Thanks to the guys who have put is a lot of work on this one.

 

[meathead]

I'm going to have a crack at this on the weekend in the Grainfather.
What temp should I mash at and for how long?
What temp should I mash out at and for how long?
What temp should I sparge at?
Thanks in advance

 

[Barge]

Mash Steps Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 10.69 l of water at 78.1 C 70.0 C 30 min
Mash Out Add 9.82 l of water at 88.3 C 78.0 C 5 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 15.69 l water at 78.0



Doing this on the weekend as well. Good luck!

 

[meathead]

Sorry still confused

Mash In Add 10.69 l of water at 78.1 C 70.0 C 30 min
Mash Out Add 9.82 l of water at 88.3 C 78.0 C 5 min

Am I mashing at 70c for 30 mins in 10.69l of water and adding 9.82l of water which is 88c to bring temp to 78c for 5 mins so total mash time is 35mins?

 

[Barge]

Yes. Although I will probably mash for 45 min with a 10 min mashout when i do it.

 

[technobabble66]

So your target temps are:
1) Mash In, 70°C, 30mins
2) Mash Out, 78°C, 5 mins

To hit the Mash In target, DJ threw his grain into 10.7L of water that was already at 78°C, then after 30 mins added 9.8L of water that was at 88°C to hit the Mash Out temp.

Does that make sense, meathead? I think what you wrote in post #149 looks correct.


FWIW, it's only 30 mins for the main mash step in order to compensate for a low OG, which would typically produce a thin mouthfeel. Keeping the main mash step high and quick is a trick to try to maximise the mouthfeel.

This is to limit the beta-amylase activity. Beta is the quicker of the 2 amylases, so 30 mins is long enough for it to do a lot of work producing fermentable saccharides, but is short enough to still ensure a fairly high percentage of unfermentable oligosaccharides are produced/maintained to produce the effect of a regular/thicker mouthfeel. Allowing a longer time basically gives the beta amylase too much time, even at a temp which it starts to denature at, to rip up too many of the unfermentable saccharides such that the beer will be thinner than desired.

So the short time is meant to be for a good reason. Not saying it's 100% necessary. ... But maybe 90% ... B)

 

[Barge]

Good to know. I'm worried that the high mash temp, combined with the 10% crystal is enough to produce the mouthfeel, without the short mash time.

My other problem is that it's my first run on my 1V system so I have no idea what efficiency I will get. I'm aiming for the same mash efficiency as my BIAB system but if it's much higher I am prepared to just brew a 4.5-5% beer. Rogers big brother, if you will.

Also, if the OG is on target I was thinking of slightly underpitching some S04, which has a tendency to wuss out early. This will help with FG.

Aggghhh. Too many variables changing!!

Okay, I'll test the gravity after 30min and if it's much higher than expected I'll do a longer mash. Otherwise I'll proceed as planned and use US05 regardless.

 

[meathead]

Thanks lads much appreciated.
I'll post numbers Sunday

 

[technobabble66]

Barge, Option B is to simply add tap water (at least for us here in Melbourne) or distilled water before you pitch you yeast to bring you OG down if your efficiency is too high.
I find it's easier to bring the OG down like this rather than raise it up if you undershoot (by boiling for longer). So I'd suggest adjust your efficiency rating to err on the side of lower.
Eg: my efficiency is normally ~80-85%, for this I set it to 75%. Admittedly I also cube, so I just get it down to the volume to fit in a cube, then when I'll pitch it I'll double check the OG and add tap water if needed.
I wouldn't stress about you FG - if you do 20-30 mins at 70-72*C your FG should still finish fairly high.

Don't stress - the variables can easily be adjusted for; or like you said, just go with however it turns out. I guess the only thing you really might need to adjust is the hops to suit your OG, but with the amounts we've got here you even have a bit of leeway if it's a little high or low.

 

[technobabble66]

FWIW, I feel i should give credit where due: that high & short mash concept is what Manticle developed with his Dark Mild recipe.
It was through discussions with him that i came to understand what was the better strategy & why it's done for a low OG beer like this. I'm guessing he read the schiessen out of the topic initially, but seemed to do a fair bit of experimenting along the way to nail it. So i blame him for forcing this upon us.
h34r:



FWIW, I wonder if along with all the other advice listed to help newbie brewers, there might be a list of certain styles to try, to hone their understanding of certain elements of brewing.
The basic reading the accompanies all that should help integrate a good understanding of the fundamentals, plus varied experience with pushing these elements a bit. Plus a good cellar afterwards :icon_cheers:
Eg:
start with a Golden Ale (DSGA, of course),
then an APA (bit more hoppiness, coping with IBUs),
then an English bitter (simple recipes can work wonders, & the way malts can shine),
an IPA (Advanced hoppiness and IBUs),
a Belgian ale (yeast funkiness),
and a Mild of some sort (to hone understanding of how varying mash schedules can alter/compensate.
And everyone does a stout at some point also.
Maybe finish off with an Imperial something.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Then SOURS!!!!! =D

 

[Barge]

Well it wasn't a complete ******!

Maiden run of my new ardbir controlled 1V setup. Asked for a coarse crush from craftbrewer to avoid a stuck sparge. O.G. came under my usual with a mash efficiency of only 70%. Only 3 points under though so I'm pretty happy.

Went with a 30 minute mash @ 70 and 5 min mashout @ 80. Looks pretty dark but I'll wait until I see it in the glass.

I've got a couple of days off next week so I might go again with a finer crush. I'll have to ask them what spacing they used. just out of interest.

 

[meathead]

OK lads here's the situation

Currently I have 28 litres pre boil at 1022 (checked 3 times)

Do I add some dme and if so how much?

 

[meathead]

OK I let the sample cool and it's actually 1028

So will boil for 75 mins instead of 60

 

[technobabble66]

You might be jumping the gun, meathead.

28 L at 1.028 should end up as 21 L at 1.037.
That's close to right. So either take it as a tiny bit lower, or boil it down to 20L instead.

That's assuming your target vol was 21L, of course.