My Rogers Clone Recipe Tastes Great

[technobabble66]

Yep (as per discussion w DJ), I tried a Rogers shortly after my post above. There's virtually no distinct roast/toast flavour in the real deal.
As mofox mentions, the 100g choc malt in mine would add too much roast/toast flavour so I'd replace it with ~50g? of midnight wheat (as per DJ above).
How much midnight was in the above clone, DJ? Is that the one I tried?

One other option might be to try to use CaraAroma instead of midnight wheat to get the colour, as the crystal-type flavour of it may blend into the other med crystal and not be too noticeable. But I have doubts on that theory. I'd probably go with the midnight wheat. Or maybe a bit of both!


EDIT:
Just checked my spreadsheet. I dropped the 100g Choc malt, then dropped out 60g of MO (down to 1.34kg MO) and added 60g Midnight Wheat. Produces a colour of 27.5 EBC (& alc drops to 3.7%). So would be a shade lighter the DJ's, which *might've* been a shade darker than the original.
Doing a similar sub using CaraAroma requires 200g to achieve a similar colour. I'd guess that's going to be really noticeable. I'm sure it'd be v tasty, but it'd be different from the original.

 

[Nizmoose]

This is colour comparison of mine with midnight wheat used (recipe from previous post). Mine left commercial right.

Lovely work, looking at that photo of the commercial example makes me think I'm actually closer to the right colour than I thought I was, I remember it being darker

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

This is colour comparison of mine with midnight wheat used (recipe from previous post). Mine left commercial right.

Yep (as per discussion w DJ), I tried a Rogers shortly after my post above. There's virtually no distinct roast/toast flavour in the real deal.
As mofox mentions, the 100g choc malt in mine would add too much roast/toast flavour so I'd replace it with ~50g? of midnight wheat (as per DJ above).
How much midnight was in the above clone, DJ? Is that the one I tried?

One other option might be to try to use CaraAroma instead of midnight wheat to get the colour, as the crystal-type flavour of it may blend into the other med crystal and not be too noticeable. But I have doubts on that theory. I'd probably go with the midnight wheat. Or maybe a bit of both!


EDIT:
Just checked my spreadsheet. I dropped the 100g Choc malt, then dropped out 60g of MO (down to 1.34kg MO) and added 60g Midnight Wheat. Produces a colour of 27.5 EBC (& alc drops to 3.7%). So would be a shade lighter the DJ's, which *might've* been a shade darker than the original.
Doing a similar sub using CaraAroma requires 200g to achieve a similar colour. I'd guess that's going to be really noticeable. I'm sure it'd be v tasty, but it'd be different from the original.

Yep it's the same one you tried TB, still have some on tap!!! Realised I posted recipe in image format/not so friendly in previous post. Here it is below:

Roger Mild
Mild
Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 24.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.650
Total Hops (g): 40.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.042 (°P): 10.5
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (°P): 3.3
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 3.74 %
Colour (SRM): 19.6 (EBC): 38.5
Bitterness (IBU): 24.1 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
2.000 kg Pale Malt (43.01%)
2.000 kg Vienna (43.01%)
0.500 kg Carapils (Dextrine) (10.75%)
0.150 kg Midnight Wheat (3.23%)

Hop Bill
----------------
20.0 g East Kent Golding Pellet (4.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
10.0 g Cascade Pellet (6.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Galaxy Pellet (11.9% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------
1/2tablet Irish Moss @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
1/2tsp Yeast Nutrient @ 5 Minutes (Boil)
Single step Infusion at 67°C for 30 Minutes.
Fermented at 18°C with Safale US-05

Notes
----------------
Single infusion with mashout @ 78C




My grist was essentially based on the originals discussions in this thread and this http://cdn.aussiehomebrewer.com/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-21568-0-18225900-1425136634.jpg photo from the brewery then someone commenting it could be midnight wheat giving the colour.

I "rounded" my actual numbers to make it simpler, but had closer to 2.5% midnight wheat in the original recipe. Thinking if I backed it off from 3.2% to 2.5% it might get the colour closer. But so as to get the slightly more rich malty/caramel flavour to the grist, would simply subbing the standard Joe White Pale malt for Marris Otter perhaps be the difference needed or would it not be enough of a difference on it's own?

 

[technobabble66]

Hey DJ,
that recipe you just posted is different to the one you posted earlier in the thread, @ post#60. So is this one above the one you actually brewed on the day?
I based my suggested recipe on post#60 (namely the OG/EBC/IBU), so i might need to tweak it if it's not quite the one i tasted.

By the way, while trolling thru the thread looking for your earlier recipe post, i found Liam's post#49 which has a pic that mentions an extra toasted caramalt. What the hell did we end up deciding that was all about?? Was that meant to be the carapils? (which doesn't sound right). I feel a bit more confident it's basically going to be replicated by the Med crystal. Maybe that plus replacing the JW Ale with Simpsons/TF MO will be enough to nail it!

Hurry up and brew the next version!!

 

[chrisluki]

[SIZE=11pt]15 brews in, and after A LOT of lessons learned (infections, alpha acid calcs, use of specialty malts) ...Finally I have brewed something that I am proud of! [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]It didn't hit the colour that I wanted, even with the brewers caramel, and it has a little less on the nose than I hoped for...but it was damn tasty! [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]You could not wipe the smile off my face last night when I was drinking it, my wife though I was a fool![/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]12 months of toiling away..no brewing experience, building my own set up and going all grain straight away...last night made it feel like it was all worth it. My best beer yet![/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]But they can always be better, hey! Few more grams/days for the dry hopping and tiny bit of darker malt (suggestions?) to fix the colour and not require me to use my brewers caramel.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Cheer to great beers! [/SIZE]

 

[Nizmoose]

Love your work. For the colour I'd just be going with a darker crystal and she should be good!

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Yep it's the same one you tried TB, still have some on tap!!! Realised I posted recipe in image format/not so friendly in previous post. Here it is below:

Roger Mild
Mild
Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 24.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.650
Total Hops (g): 40.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.042 (°P): 10.5
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (°P): 3.3
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 3.74 %
Colour (SRM): 19.6 (EBC): 38.5
Bitterness (IBU): 24.1 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
2.000 kg Pale Malt (43.01%)
2.000 kg Vienna (43.01%)
0.500 kg Carapils (Dextrine) (10.75%)
0.150 kg Midnight Wheat (3.23%)

Hop Bill
----------------
20.0 g East Kent Golding Pellet (4.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
10.0 g Cascade Pellet (6.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Galaxy Pellet (11.9% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------
1/2tablet Irish Moss @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
1/2tsp Yeast Nutrient @ 5 Minutes (Boil)
Single step Infusion at 67°C for 30 Minutes.
Fermented at 18°C with Safale US-05

Notes
----------------
Single infusion with mashout @ 78C




My grist was essentially based on the originals discussions in this thread and this http://cdn.aussiehomebrewer.com/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-21568-0-18225900-1425136634.jpg photo from the brewery then someone commenting it could be midnight wheat giving the colour.

I "rounded" my actual numbers to make it simpler, but had closer to 2.5% midnight wheat in the original recipe. Thinking if I backed it off from 3.2% to 2.5% it might get the colour closer. But so as to get the slightly more rich malty/caramel flavour to the grist, would simply subbing the standard Joe White Pale malt for Marris Otter perhaps be the difference needed or would it not be enough of a difference on it's own?

Hey DJ,
that recipe you just posted is different to the one you posted earlier in the thread, @ post#60. So is this one above the one you actually brewed on the day?
I based my suggested recipe on post#60 (namely the OG/EBC/IBU), so i might need to tweak it if it's not quite the one i tasted.

By the way, while trolling thru the thread looking for your earlier recipe post, i found Liam's post#49 which has a pic that mentions an extra toasted caramalt. What the hell did we end up deciding that was all about?? Was that meant to be the carapils? (which doesn't sound right). I feel a bit more confident it's basically going to be replicated by the Med crystal. Maybe that plus replacing the JW Ale with Simpsons/TF MO will be enough to nail it!

Hurry up and brew the next version!!

My apologies all! The above recipe I posted was NOT what I actually brewed, posted photos of or that technobabble has tasted. No idea why but I must have printed off the wrong recipe as I intended to brew the above. Really hope I ordered my grain based on the actual one I brewed otherwise I have no idea what happened LOL. As for the Caramalt I am unsure a decision was chosen, it could be the blackboard meant that a "Caramalt" is an extra toasted malt, rather than some special Cara-malt was chosen?

This is the recipe I brewed:

Roger Mild Mild
Recipe Specs
---------------
Batch Size (L): 24.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.100
Total Hops (g): 40.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.037 (°P): 9.3
Final Gravity (FG): 1.012 (°P): 3.1
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 3.30 %
Colour (SRM): 15.1 (EBC): 29.7
Bitterness (IBU): 24.7 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70 Boil Time (Minutes): 60


Grain Bill
---------------
1.800 kg Pale Malt (43.9%)
1.800 kg Vienna (43.9%)
0.400 kg Carapils (Dextrine) (9.76%)
0.100 kg Midnight Wheat (2.44%)

Hop Bill
---------------
20.0 g East Kent Golding Pellet (4.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
10.0 g Cascade Pellet (6.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Galaxy Pellet (11.9% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)

Misc Bill
---------------
1.0 g Irish Moss @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
1.0 g Yeast Nutrient @ 5 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 67°C for 30 Minutes.
Fermented at 18°C with Safale US-05

Notes
---------------
Single infusion with mashout @ 78C


Due to a low pre-boil gravity I actually boiled quite hard and overshot the OG, ended up with 1.044. I diluted this back to 1.037 in line with the recipe so this would have adjusted things, making me even more wary about upping malts too much for my next attempt. Ferment finished at 1.009 also, which was because my mash temp dropped also from 67.0C to 65.1C after 45mins. I'm brewing on my new rig now so attempt #2 will have a solid mash temp.

Sorry for the confusion, I believe my keg is getting low of this so will plan to brew this again before the end of the year so I have the second attempt taste results in the new year

 

[technobabble66]

AH HA !!!
That makes more sense, then. (e.g.: EBC & midnight wheat seems more like it)

FWIW, my tweaked recipe, which will be brewed when i next have a gap in my brewing schedule ... some time in a few years, at this rate:

Ramjet Ale
22.5 L
OG=1.040
FG=1.013
IBU=24.6
EBC=28.4
alc=3.8%

1.14kg (28.5%) MO (TFFM)
1.0kg (25%) Vienna (Wey)
1.0kg (25%) Wheat
0.4kg (10%) Munich 2 (Wey)
0.2kg (5%) CaraPils
0.2kg (5%) Med Crystal (Simpsons)
0.06kg (1.5%) Midnight Wheat (Briess)

7g (0.3g/L) EKG (4.5%) @ FWH
10g (0.4g/L) EKG (4.5%) @ 20mins
15g (0.6g/L) Cascade (7.8%) @ 20mins
10g (0.4g/L) Galaxy (13.4%) @ 20mins
20g (0.8g/L) each of Cascade & Galaxy dry hop

(** 20mins additions are to be cube-hopped - should capture more of the hops elements)

Mash: 55/70/72/78 for 5/30/20/2
(as per manticle's suggestion. Might go with 55/71/78 for 5/30/2 for simplicity, or just 70/78 for 30/2)

plus some brewing salts, nutrients, etc.
yeast = US05, American Ale, 1272, etc.
---------------------------------------

Basically, i've recently tried a few beers that've made me think what i've ascribed to Munich may be Wheat, or a combo of Munich+Wheat. So i've basically upped the Wheat content a lot.
I then pulled out the choc malt as it's definitely not right, and replaced it with a little MW to achieve the colour.

In another version, i'd be tempted to drop the munich and test this fully - but i like Munich :lol: . If i did, i'd probably up the Carapils & Med Crystal, depending on how this one turns out.


One of us better get brewing chop chop to test out one of these tweaked versions, DJ!

 

[CoxR]

I had my first taste of the original recently and now I know why this thread has been going for this long. I am keen to hear how the latest attempts have turned out. I will brew this on the weekend maybe as I have not had a chance to brew for about 6 weeks.

 

[technobabble66]

I think my next brew will be a Rogers clone. I've slightly tweaked my recipe above to drop the wheat to 20% and up the Vienna to be 28.5% & MO to 30%.
The yeast choice may be Edinburgh Ale 028, just because it's what I've currently got going. Hopefully brewed sometime over the next several days.

 

[Nizmoose]

I need to pull my **** together and brew my adjusted recipe and report back as well!

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Anyone had a recent crack or laid one of these down in FV (looking at you techno )? I've got it set in my scopes for the near future! Thinking of even utilising some fresh Citra i got recently to jazz it up as opposed to cloning it exactly, but keeping withthe malt bill, thoughts?

 

[Black n Tan]

Go for it DJ. I happened to be brewing at LC last week as I won a comp. I did ask some questions about the rogers and got some answers, although there seemed to be a little undecided on a few matters. The info I could glean was Barret Burston pale malt, munich, wheat, medium crystal and malt-derived caramel extract, 50% US and Australian cascade.

 

[Nizmoose]

Go for it DJ. I happened to be brewing at LC last week as I won a comp. I did ask some questions about the rogers and got some answers, although there seemed to be a little undecided on a few matters. The info I could glean was Barret Burston pale malt, munich, wheat, medium crystal and malt-derived caramel extract, 50% US and Australian cascade.

Quality pieces to the puzzle right there

 

[technobabble66]

Anyone had a recent crack or laid one of these down in FV (looking at you techno )? I've got it set in my scopes for the near future! Thinking of even utilising some fresh Citra i got recently to jazz it up as opposed to cloning it exactly, but keeping withthe malt bill, thoughts?

Yeah. About that. Not brewed. No time to brew for the next 1-2 weeks.
It'll still probably be the first cab off the rank, but it'll have to wait a little.

 

[technobabble66]

Go for it DJ. I happened to be brewing at LC last week as I won a comp. I did ask some questions about the rogers and got some answers, although there seemed to be a little undecided on a few matters. The info I could glean was Barret Burston pale malt, munich, wheat, medium crystal and malt-derived caramel extract, 50% US and Australian cascade.

Ah HA!!
Exactly as we'd discussed, hey DJ! - has Munich and Med Crystal in it.
I wonder if the caramel extract is more for colour or flavour?

Thanks v much for that info BnT. Invaluable!!

 

[Black n Tan]

Ah HA!!
Exactly as we'd discussed, hey DJ! - has Munich and Med Crystal in it.
I wonder if the caramel extract is more for colour or flavour?

Thanks v much for that info BnT. Invaluable!!

Well as I said there was a little vacillating on some of the details, so i would bank on all the details being 100% correct, but at least it came from some brewers. The caramel exact is more for colour was the impression I got, however I did get the idea that may have used dark candy syrup once upon a time. So I would use a little of that for colour adjustment.

 

[technobabble66]

Anyone had a recent crack or laid one of these down in FV (looking at you techno )? I've got it set in my scopes for the near future! Thinking of even utilising some fresh Citra i got recently to jazz it up as opposed to cloning it exactly, but keeping withthe malt bill, thoughts?

Hey Deej, Back to this, what recipe will you go with then?
I'm still v happy with the look of the recipe in post #108 + the mods done in post #110.
How's your's coming along?
WRT the hops, I'm sure the Citra would work well. I personally would be keen to see it done as a clone, just to see if we can nail it.
However, I'll do mine as above anyway, so if yours is kinda similar it'll be interesting to gauge the difference Citra makes.
Could you do a double batch? One with cube- or keg-hopped Citra and t'other without?

 

[Black n Tan]

Well as I said there was a little vacillating on some of the details, so i would bank on all the details being 100% correct, but at least it came from some brewers. The caramel exact is more for colour was the impression I got, however I did get the idea that may have used dark candy syrup once upon a time. So I would use a little of that for colour adjustment.

Sorry I meant to say that i would NOT be confident the details are 100% correct but at last it is a start.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Hey Deej, Back to this, what recipe will you go with then?
I'm still v happy with the look of the recipe in post #108 + the mods done in post #110.
How's your's coming along?
WRT the hops, I'm sure the Citra would work well. I personally would be keen to see it done as a clone, just to see if we can nail it.
However, I'll do mine as above anyway, so if yours is kinda similar it'll be interesting to gauge the difference Citra makes.
Could you do a double batch? One with cube- or keg-hopped Citra and t'other without?

I've got Simpsons MO that's quite old (but still OK) I'd like to use up so will probably got that for the base pale. Swap the Vienna for Munich and drop the amount (but by how much?), add some straight wheat, med crystal and the midnight wheat again as I think that provides the colour the extract would have otherwise.

As for hops, I need to use what's in my fridge so will go either EKG or Magnum for bittering and then Citra for the late hops.

Id like to nail the clone too and could definitely do a double batch (I'm actually yet to brew a single on my rig so haven't even confirmed it CAN handle singles OK), so perhaps cube hop one with the Cascade, the other with Citra. Problem is I only have 4 taps, so might have to bottle these as there is no way 50% of my taps are pouring mid strengths

Interesting they didn't mention Galaxy to B&T, they must change it from time to time like other commercials, the barstards! Who's thinking of us poor home brewers that want to clone their beers just so we don't have to buy them???