My Rogers Clone Recipe Tastes Great

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All good. I'd consider keeping the Vienna to some extent. Your last one w lots of Vienna was pretty close. Most of the "base" flavour seemed right. And one of the LC boards I have a pic of definitely says it's got Vienna in it (fwiw).

Yep, I'd go to the 2 diff versions cube-hopped.

Could you brew a "1.75" batch, so to speak, and put 1 full batch into a FV (namely the Citra batch) and then the other 3/4 into another FV to dilute out to 3.8% alc? That way you end up with only one mid-strength and another full-strength Citra-hopped keg of awesomeness.
Doable? Or too much faffing?
 
That's not such a bad idea, although I have nice fresh of Citra, Simcoe and Chinook. So going to brew up APA and IPA double batches. Thinking about that actually I probably don't NEED to use the Citra in this and should just stick to the clone. Too many brews to do, too little time and must resist drinking too much! Might check the freezer tonight see what other hops I can throw at this to free up some freezer space.....

Would Nelson Sauv work in this late?
 
DJ_L3ThAL said:
Interesting they didn't mention Galaxy to B&T, they must change it from time to time like other commercials, the barstards! Who's thinking of us poor home brewers that want to clone their beers just so we don't have to buy them???
They told me they change the hops in each of their beers every 6 months in line with Southern and Northern Hemisphere seasons and the quantities of hops available to them under contract. They are also allowed to import American Cascade cones: only brewers in Australia that can do this apparently.
 
DJ_L3ThAL said:
Would Nelson Sauv work in this late?
You could combo it with Cascade and call it Fat Roger's Yak...
Will probably work well. Just be careful with using too much. I made the mistake of using a fair bit of Nelson late and then dry hopping with it also. It might've been something else, but that beer was rather odd and took 6 months to be drinkable (ie: I think it took that long basically for the Nelson to fade).
Fwiw, I'd guess the full strength version will be more of an Amber ale rather than an APA so you could go either malt or hops focused, or both!!
 
Hey Deej. If you're reeeeally clever you actually do 3 versions.
Brew it as a high/full strength IPA/RIPA for "1 batch" (7.6%), put a 3/4 batch into another cube for an APA/AAA (5.7%) and a "1/2 batch" into a third FV for the 3.8% clone. So you actually start with a "2.25 batch". Cube hop differently, of course!
Now there's a challenge for you & your spiffy setup [emoji6][emoji41]
 
Roger Mild MKII


Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 21.00 l
Boil Size: 29.60 l
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 26.00 l
Final Bottling Vol: 19.00 l
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
Date: 24 Jan 2016
Equipment: 3V RIMS Rig - Single Batch
Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 89.3 %

Ingredients Amt Name Type %/IBU
1.80 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) 50.0 %
0.75 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) 20.8 %
0.75 kg Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) 20.8 %
0.15 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) 4.2 %
0.15 kg Wheat, Midnight Roasted (837.3 EBC) 4.2 %

20.00 g East Kent Goldings (EKG) [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min 10.5 IBUs
15.00 g Cascade [7.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min 3.7 IBUs CUBE HOPPED
15.00 g Galaxy [13.20 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min 7.0 IBUs CUBE HOPPED


0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins)
0.50 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 mins)

1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35.49 ml]


Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Original Gravity: 1.040 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 3.7 %
Bitterness: 21.3 IBUs
Est Color: 27.5 EBC

Mash Profile
Mash Name: English Mild
Sparge Water: 15.69 l
Sparge Temperature: 78.0 C
Total Grain Weight: 3.60 kg
Grain Temperature: 20.0 C
Tun Temperature: 20.0 C
Mash PH: 5.20

Mash Steps Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 10.69 l of water at 78.1 C 70.0 C 30 min
Mash Out Add 9.82 l of water at 88.3 C 78.0 C 5 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 15.69 l water at 78.0 C


Mash Notes: Full body for lighter ABV% beers




What are your thoughts on this (apologies for the ****** reading, haven't worked out an easy way to copy beersmith recipes onto the forum as text)? I'm not sure about the actual wheat addition and whether to. As you mentioned techno the grist tasted very close my last crack, unsure if the wheat will fill it out too much, being mindful that my mash temps were lower last time and will be actually 7degC higher than what I actually mashed at last time (my FG was 1.009).

I can knock this out tomorrow night. I'm keen to try a single batch on my rig so not going to double or anything at this stage, but keen to crack the original!

Side note: I can't work out how to control the estimated mash efficiency. 75% brewhouse seems to get me almost spot on every brew on my rig, if I deviate either side I've run into troubles, so I leave that fixed but it seems to wildly affect the mash efficiency (79% to 90% variation)... does the types of grain %'s, mash temp and pH (which I don't control) affect the mash efficiency % in beersmith?
 
Hey Deej. Quick reply as I'm o/s.
The recipe looks good!
The hops I can't critique as I don't have any other recipes (namely you're prev one) to compare with. I think your prev hops bill was pretty much bang on, maybe just more dry hopping to finish it off.

With the grains, I see you've gone with the Munich and have dropped the wheat. As prev mentioned, I suspect both are in the original. However, I'd certainly be keen to test this by trying a version with just Munich & no wheat, as yours is. I'd also guess there should be 100-200g Med Crystal in the original. Again, research is best done one step at a time, so maybe try yours as is. I personally are too impatient for that, so I'd do all the changes at once Munich, wheat & Crystal.
Basically, I'll try mine as per one of my last posts above, so maybe you do yours as is and we can compare these 2 version.
 
In terms of mash, hard to say, but I'd say mash temp and pH make a huge difference. Crush size also. Grain to liquor ratio to some extent.
Having said that I get a bit of variance also. ~82-85%
 
Edit to ^^: not sure I understood your question. Maybe someone familiar with beer smith needs to answer that as I use ianh's spreadsheet. But I'd say if you're repeating the same or similar recipe, you should be getting similar results. How close to the estimate are you getting with your actual results?
 
technobabble66 said:
Hey Deej. Quick reply as I'm o/s.
The recipe looks good!
The hops I can't critique as I don't have any other recipes (namely you're prev one) to compare with. I think your prev hops bill was pretty much bang on, maybe just more dry hopping to finish it off.

With the grains, I see you've gone with the Munich and have dropped the wheat. As prev mentioned, I suspect both are in the original. However, I'd certainly be keen to test this by trying a version with just Munich & no wheat, as yours is. I'd also guess there should be 100-200g Med Crystal in the original. Again, research is best done one step at a time, so maybe try yours as is. I personally are too impatient for that, so I'd do all the changes at once Munich, wheat & Crystal.
Basically, I'll try mine as per one of my last posts above, so maybe you do yours as is and we can compare these 2 version.
CRYSTAL!!! I rushed, had planned on putting it in, modified recipe below! I'll still keep Wheat out so we can compare batches. Also deciding to add the Galaxy Hop Shot (courtesy of Hop Dealz Aus) into this to try it's effect.

technobabble66 said:
Edit to ^^: not sure I understood your question. Maybe someone familiar with beer smith needs to answer that as I use ianh's spreadsheet. But I'd say if you're repeating the same or similar recipe, you should be getting similar results. How close to the estimate are you getting with your actual results?
Beersmith calcs my mash recipe itself, which ends up varying from 79 to 90% each batch and I can't seem to work out what changes it. I've kept my BREWHOUSE efficiency set to 75%, but something modifies the mash efficiency unbeknownst to me. I'm getting close to my numbers recently by keeping my brewhouse efficiency set to 75%. But don't understand how my mash efficiency can change if I am not changing anything I am doing? Is it simply the types of grains (ie. some roasted won't have as much extract from them so reduce the mash efficiency)?




Roger Mild MKII


Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 21.00 l
Boil Size: 29.60 l
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 26.00 l
Final Bottling Vol: 19.00 l
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
Date: 24 Jan 2016
Equipment: 3V RIMS Rig - Single Batch
Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 89.3 %

Ingredients Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.50 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) 43.6 %
0.75 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) 21.8 %
0.75 kg Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) 21.8 %
0.17 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) 4.9 %
0.17 kg Crystal, Medium (Simpsons) (108.3 EBC) 4.9 %
0.10 kg Wheat, Midnight Roasted (837.3 EBC) 2.9 %

20.00 g East Kent Goldings (EKG) [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min 10.7 IBUs
15.00 g Cascade [7.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min 3.8 IBUs
15.00 g Galaxy [13.20 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min 7.1 IBUs
10.00 g Galaxy [11.90 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days 0.0 IBUs HOP LIQUID SHOT STRAIGHT INTO KEG (mL's TBC)


0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins)
0.50 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 mins)

1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35.49 ml]



Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Original Gravity: 1.038 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.011 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 3.5 %
Bitterness: 21.6 IBUs
Est Color: 24.3 EBC

Mash Profile
Mash Name: English Mild
Sparge Water: 16.45 l
Sparge Temperature: 78.0 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE
Total Grain Weight: 3.44 kg
Grain Temperature: 20.0 C
Tun Temperature: 20.0 C
Mash PH: 5.20

Mash Steps Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 10.22 l of water at 78.1 C 70.0 C 30 min
Mash Out Add 9.38 l of water at 88.3 C 78.0 C 5 min
Sparge: Fly sparge with 16.45 l water at 78.0 C


Mash Notes: Full body for lighter ABV% beers

Notes
Dry hop Galaxy with Liquid Hop Shot (x mL's into keg)
 
Looks much better [emoji106][emoji4]
Yeah, I wondered where the crystal went [emoji57]
I'd maybe up your midnight wheat by 10-50g to get the EBCs back up ~27, however much that needs.
Hops look great. If that goes wrong, we can blame Yob [emoji41]

No idea about beersmith. Could it be you're constraining your calc at the wrong point? ie: by setting the brew house efficiency at 75% you're forcing BS to estimate the mash efficiency required to hit that BH efficiency of 75%.
So in that case, you should be setting the mash eff and letting it estimate your BH eff; rather than the other way around which is what you're currently doing. Again, I don't use BS so I could be arse around with that guess.
 
Thanks mate, appreciate you responding whilst overseas!

I've shaved some EBCs off as I found mine a touch darker than Rogers side by side. Granted I boiled too hard and diluted last time but will just see how it turns out at the current recipe (more cos I cbf adjusting and have ordered the midnight wheat already :p).

I've only tried the hop shots in glasses, so keen to see the effect in a keg and give it the few days time to 'settle in' which appears to smooth out the hop flavour/aroma.

As for Beersmith, it calcs based on brew house so it's probably fine, just 89.3% mash efficiency seems quite high? I'll report back tomorrow how the brew goes:)
 
DJ_L3ThAL said:
Thanks mate, appreciate you responding whilst overseas!
No worries, dude, this is THAT important!! [emoji6]

Jebus, you're ordering midnight wheat?! I'll bring some over next time. I have kilos, and use 50-100g per batch.

I'll make mine ASAP on my return & we'll compare [emoji41]

Ps: 90% mash eff is pretty damn high - You better be sparging like a *******!!
 
Can we pretend that I haven't actually brewed this one? Yes, let's do that.......

Absolute clusterf*ck of a brew day. Let's just say if you get to the point you are almost going to ring the electrical network provider to ask if they have switched your active/neutral phases around, causing your homebrew pumps to spin anticlockwise, you're having a bad day. *cough* it was just a bad airlock *cough*

So my mash temp dropped to 50-55C over an hour before I had the airlock sorted. Ramped straight up to 70C and held for 30 mins just to make myself feel better. Rest of the night went ok, although ended up with slightly more volume and only 1.034... Think my boil off rate needs some tuning. Oh well I have a cube of this, albeit quite departed from the intended recipe/mash schedule. I intended to be done by 10pm and only just finished cleaning up now, yikes.
 
In a better mood today!

I did taste the finished wort and was quite bitter, probably due to the lower ABV and slight increase in IBUs obviously. By time I cubes the wort was at 78-80C so won't get much bitterness from the galaxy and cascade, hopefully it turns out to a nice drop but I WILL brew this again and nail the mash temp for testing purposes.
 
Finally having a go at this attempt, though it's going to be cubed (re: 20min additions) so it'll be a while before it gets to drinking:

Ramjet Ale
22.5 L
OG=1.040
FG=1.013 (75% atten.)
IBU=24.1
EBC=21.3
alc=3.8%

1.155kg (28.9%) MO (TFFM)
1.15kg (28.8%) Vienna (Wey)
0.8kg (20%) Wheat (Wey)
0.4kg (10%) Munich 2 (Wey)
0.2kg (5%) CaraPils (Wey)
0.2kg (5%) Med Crystal (Simpsons)
0.025kg (0.6%) Midnight Wheat (Briess)
0.07kg (1.8%) Acidulated (Wye)

10g (0.3g/L) EKG (4.5%) @ FWH
3g (0.4g/L) EKG (4.5%) @ 20mins
15g (0.6g/L) Cascade (7.8%) @ 20mins
10g (0.4g/L) Galaxy (13.4%) @ 20mins
20g (0.8g/L) of Cascade & 15g of Galaxy dry hop

(** 20mins additions are to be cube-hopped - should capture more of the hops elements)

Mash: 70/72/78 for 30/15/2
(slightly as per manticle's suggestion. ditched the 55°C step to make it easier, and i wasn't sure how long it'd take me to get to 70°C from 55°C, so i might've had the beta-amylase going at it for too long)
EDIT: this was instead kinda ripped off manticle's mash schedule for a mild ale - he's an endless fount of pilferable info, that guy! :lol:

1.3g CaSO4 + 2.5g CaCl + 1.3g MgSO4 into Mash
1.1g CaSO4 + 2.1g CaCl + 1.1g MgSO4 +0.3g Citric acid into Sparge
0.5g CaSO4 + 2.5g CaCl + 1.3g MgSO4 into Boil

yeast = US05, American Ale, 1272, etc.
... though i have a batch of WLP-028 Scottish Ale ready to go at the moment...
---------------------------------------

Another largish change was to drop the Midnight Wheat a fair bit to drop the colour down from ~28 EBC to ~21 EBC. I did this because i had one of my other beers last night (an APA) and it was almost identical in colour to the Rogers i had next to it, and it was meant to come in at 21.1 EBC.

Edit: Mash when in at 68°C for no apparent reason, so a few minutes getting it up to 70°C. Then when i returned after the 30mins was up, it'd dropped back down to 68.5°C. Currently sitting at 72°C for 20mins...
 
Brew day cockup was a large boil over as I stepped away for a few minutes.
Green crud everywhere, from the 10g of EKG used for the FWH.
Tossed in my remaining 5g EKG into the boil to compensate. Just need to adjust my 20min additions now.
Fingers crossed!

********* !!! [emoji30]
 
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