Mother Of Vinegar

[unrealeous]

forget capturing acetobacter ...I want to know how best to kill it!!?

Tell me, sirhendo, what's the best way to stifle it ...I attribute most of my failed brews to it. :angry:

I can't grow without the presence of oxygen, that's why you'll only see it on the top of your brew - so don't open the lid of your fermenter ever. Not even to dry hop (well maybe this is the exception ). And if you rack to another vessel, flush the headspace with CO2.

 

[jimmysuperlative]

I can't grow without the presence of oxygen, that's why you'll only see it on the top of your brew - so don't open the lid of your fermenter ever. Not even to dry hop (well maybe this is the exception ). And if you rack to another vessel, flush the headspace with CO2.

What about it taking hold in fermenters and hoses? Where is it most likely to be "found" in the household? Is it an airborne contaminant ...borne on dust etc?

What effects would it have on homebrew? taste? smell? etc?

 

[Silo Ted]

Carried by Fruit flies, apparently. Dont let them root on your demijohn lip.

 

[jimmysuperlative]

Carried by Fruit flies, apparently. Dont let them root on your demijohn lip.

I don't know fruit fly anatomy, but ...talk about up to your nuts in guts h34r:

 

[sirhendo]

Cool.

So does he use the same mother source for all styles of vinegar, or one for apple, one for wine etc?

And if I wildharvested for a mother in Sydney and say one in the blue mountains, would the two mothers impart different flavours in the same base batch of mash?

We use one mother for red wine vinegar and another for white wine and cider vinegar.

Essentially they are the same strain, you just don't want any red wine colour going into a white product.

With aceterbacter, there aren't really multiple strains like there is for yeast that impart different flavours - not to say that there isn't, it just doesn't really make a difference. Aceterbacter is a prokaryote (i.e. bacteria) which is a much simpler life form than yeast which is a eukaryote.

I hope that helps!

Hendo

 

[sirhendo]

forget capturing acetobacter ...I want to know how best to kill it!!?

Tell me, sirhendo, what's the best way to stifle it ...I attribute most of my failed brews to it. :angry:

As I've often said around here, the sour off-flavour you're getting probably isn't aceterbacter & acetic acid....it's probably lactobacillus and lactic acid. They are very similar and it takes a keen palette to spot the difference.

Poor sanitation is usually the cause of this.

My tip (and I don't want to go off topic here on a sanitation discussion), to kill all bacteria effectively, a Table Spoon of Citric Acid, a couple of teaspoons of PMS (Potassium Metabisulphite) in warm water is awesome....though smelly.

PMS on its own is not as effective a sanitiser than when it's mixed with a mild acid....i.e. you need an acid and a salt to create the sulphur which is what kills the nasties.

Cheers!

Hendo

 

[Silo Ted]

With aceterbacter, there aren't really multiple strains like there is for yeast that impart different flavours - not to say that there isn't, it just doesn't really make a difference. Aceterbacter is a prokaryote (i.e. bacteria) which is a much simpler life form than yeast which is a eukaryote.

On the subject of acetobactoer taxonomy. It appears that there are at least 20 species according to a volume of the Journal of Applied Microbiology, so how many are viable vinegar producers?. While it's all pure theory, wondering which one(s). Limited googling might suggest that A. aceti is the culprit.

 

[sirhendo]

On the subject of acetobactoer taxonomy. It appears that there are at least 20 species according to a volume of the Journal of Applied Microbiology, so how many are viable vinegar producers?. While it's all pure theory, wondering which one(s). Limited googling might suggest that A. aceti is the culprit.

A good question though outside of my limited knowledge of aceterbacter. Will check with my brother and find out for you

 

[Greg.L]

As I've often said around here, the sour off-flavour you're getting probably isn't aceterbacter & acetic acid....it's probably lactobacillus and lactic acid. They are very similar and it takes a keen palette to spot the difference.

Poor sanitation is usually the cause of this.

My tip (and I don't want to go off topic here on a sanitation discussion), to kill all bacteria effectively, a Table Spoon of Citric Acid, a couple of teaspoons of PMS (Potassium Metabisulphite) in warm water is awesome....though smelly.

PMS on its own is not as effective a sanitiser than when it's mixed with a mild acid....i.e. you need an acid and a salt to create the sulphur which is what kills the nasties.

Cheers!

Hendo

Its easy to tell the difference between acetic acid and lactic acid by the smell. Acetobacter and acetic acid are usually accompanied by ethyl acetate, together they give the characteristic vinegar smell. Lactic acid isn't volatile so you won't smell it at all, I presume you mean lactobacillus causing off flavours, something citric acid will encourage. Citric and pms together are used for keeping containers sanitised when not being used, you don't want to put citric in wine or it might cause off flavours.
If you are getting acetic taints it means you're letting too much oxygen get in there, use a better container or bottle sooner. Acetobacter are everywhere but can't thrive without O2.