Mother Of Vinegar

[Silo Ted]

Looking to capture some local Acetobacter, and grow a 'mother' starter, with a view to making tasty vinegars. Anyone done it from scratch ?

Or is this an aspect of microbiology that any sane brewer should not be home-labbing?

 

[Greg.L]

I'm trying cider vinegar production at the moment with some cider that got too much air. The problem is where to keep it - it needs warmth but is too stinky to keep in the house, and can't go in the cellar with my cider, right now its on the verandah in buckets but the nights are a bit cold.

I read that the way to test it is to do an acid titration, diluted x 10. When it gets to 5% (50g/L) its nearly ready.

Greg

 

[ekul]

what about capturing some from a fruit fly?

 

[QldKev]

Why not get some 'Bragg' vinegar, it comes with the mother still in it. You get bottle of the best vinegar available, and a decent vinegar mother.

QldKev

 

[Silo Ted]

what about capturing some from a fruit fly?

The 'from scratch' aspect is exactly what I want to do. Thinking of a sugar/water solution and some fresh figs in a bottle to attract the flies, 'infect' the solution and grow a mother that way. No added vinegar, noting but a trap.

Why not get some 'Bragg' vinegar, it comes with the mother still in it.

See above. Might as well make it as hard as possible for myself But yea, quite interested in harnessing the 'local strain' of my area, for no particular reason other than it being a fun experiment.

 

[unrealeous]

See above. Might as well make it as hard as possible for myself But yea, quite interested in harnessing the 'local strain' of my area, for no particular reason other than it being a fun experiment.

Well then, the gloves are off I see. Good for you.

The question then becomes - What's the best way to get a [Edit] Acto infection? I'd transfer a couple of liters of freshly brewed beer into a sterile fermenter and make sure there is plenty of oxygen in the head-space. Glad wrap over the top - Just a matter of time before it starts growing.

 

[Nick JD]

Which acetobacter makes the best vinegar?

 

[Malted]

I hope you can get the 'wort' be it cider, red or white wine for next to nix otherwise it may be cheaper just to buy small bottles of balsamic or wine vinegar when required.

 

[Silo Ted]

Wouldn't know, Nick.

The small eels / worms that spawn in unprocessed vinegar are Turbatrix aceti and there is an Acetobacter species aceti.

I suspect that what I may find is that different regional trappings may result in bacterial variation, similar to sourdough starter.

 

[Silo Ted]

I hope you can get the 'wort' be it cider, red or white wine for next to nix otherwise it may be cheaper just to buy small bottles of balsamic or wine vinegar when required.

It's not really about the cost savings, but the DIY aspect. Also something to occupy my mind when not brewing.

The cider and wort obviously very cheap, and Dan's sometimes sell wine for under $3 a bottle, though I would spend a bit more on plonk. Good quality in = good quality out.

 

[Eater]

Ok because i have no idea what you are all talking about, has anyone got a good link for data from the net on this subject?

(yes i can google fu, but trying to find "good" info still relies on a humans interpretation)

 

[Nick JD]

Ok because i have no idea what you are all talking about, has anyone got a good link for data from the net on this subject?

(yes i can google fu, but trying to find "good" info still relies on a humans interpretation)

The twenty-odd acetobacter species eat ethanol and produce ethanoic acid aka acetic acid aka vinegar. They need oxygen to do this.

You can buy a culture of them in various types of vinegar (red wine, cider etc).

Like yeast (and often found with yeast) they are present in the breath you just took, but are found in concentration on things that are rotting, or eat rotting things - especially sour ones.

That's about it really.

 

[Greg.L]

The cider and wort obviously very cheap, and Dan's sometimes sell wine for under $3 a bottle, though I would spend a bit more on plonk. Good quality in = good quality out.

Commercial cider and red wine contain SO2 so won't work very fast. better to make your own basic cider with suphite-free apple juice.

 

[Nick JD]

I'd get some eels - that would creep people out!

"Here, splash some of these nematodes on your chips..." YUM!

 

[Silo Ted]

Ok because i have no idea what you are all talking about, has anyone got a good link for data from the net on this subject?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_of_vinegar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar_eels

Commercial cider and red wine contain SO2 so won't work very fast. better to make your own basic cider with suphite-free apple juice.

Many organic wines contain far less sulpher dioxide I think. Alternatively I am getting a bottle of home made red tonight from an Italian guy I was chatting to yesterday, if its crap ill save it for vinegar.

And yes NickJD, the wriggly little eels will be used for maximum shock value wherever I can. Might save them all in one big jar and leave it on my desk at work. :lol:

 

[Greg.L]

Ok because i have no idea what you are all talking about, has anyone got a good link for data from the net on this subject?

(yes i can google fu, but trying to find "good" info still relies on a humans interpretation)

Andrew Lea has some very good cider resources at cider.org.uk.
His page on juice and vinegar is at http://cider.org.uk/part6.htm

 

[SuiCIDER]

I was looking to do this too, but I have no where to put it! I didn't want a concentration of acetobacter in my brewing area Let us know how you go!

 

[sirhendo]

Any and all vinegar questions, throw them my way. My brother is a professional 'craft' vinegar maker and I worked for him for a year so I'm pretty well versed.

The first rule of aceterbacter....lots of heat + lots of oxygen. Do to your 'wort' (though it's actually called a 'mash') of wine, beer, cider or anything alcoholic exactly what you've been told NOT to do. That's what makes great vinegar.

Cheers!

Hendo

 

[jimmysuperlative]

forget capturing acetobacter ...I want to know how best to kill it!!?

Tell me, sirhendo, what's the best way to stifle it ...I attribute most of my failed brews to it. :angry:

 

[Silo Ted]

Any and all vinegar questions, throw them my way.

Cool.

So does he use the same mother source for all styles of vinegar, or one for apple, one for wine etc?

And if I wildharvested for a mother in Sydney and say one in the blue mountains, would the two mothers impart different flavours in the same base batch of mash?