warrenlw63
Just a Hoe
- Joined
- 4/5/04
- Messages
- 7,202
- Reaction score
- 12
WG
Email sent.
Warren -
Email sent.
Warren -
Melbourne Herlisil (sanitiser) Bulk Buy
- Thread starter Wortgames
- Start date
Help Support Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum:
Wortgames
'Draught' is not a beer style - it's a lifestyle
Hi everyone, the stock is in and I hope to be dropping off to Lucas and Velophile this afternoon. The northern suburbs guys can contact me to arrange pickup (can't do this weekend though) and Johnno I'll catch up with you in a week or two :beer:
Due to some confusion over the effective dilution rates for this stuff, I’ve spoken with the supplier at length and crunched the numbers, and I’ve come up with some equivalent dilution rates. I have to confess I didn’t fully appreciate just how concentrated it is, and just how little of it we need to use - you will probably never need to buy sanitiser again!
As it is, this is very concentrated, industrial grade stuff, and requires special handling. As mentioned before, it certainly cannot be shipped without the appropriate dangerous goods permit. The guy who sold it to us was extremely keen to see that everyone got a copy of the safety documentation etc. Please read it and be warned!
Herlisil FP contains 50% Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2). That’s 10 times stronger than hair bleach, and 17 times stronger than BrewShield (each 1L bottle is equivalent to about 70 x 250ml bottles of BrewShield). The best way to handle it would probably be to dilute each litre with 4 litres of distilled or deionized water (Supercheap Auto or Kmart) to create 5L of ‘premixed’ 1:4 (10% H2O2) solution, which can be kept indefinitely and further diluted with tap water before use. This is still over 3 times stronger than BrewShield, but is much less harmful than the undiluted product if spilled, and it means you don’t have to dress up like a spaceman every time you want to mix up some fresh sanitiser. The second table below gives usage rates for this ‘premix’.
You absolutely must keep this out of your eyes and throat at all costs. Even tiny quantities on the skin will turn the skin white temporarily, although the bleaching soon disappears after washing. Larger quantities however can cause burns, and contact with vulnerable areas such as eyes, nose and throat can cause extensive damage.
If you are diluting it for storage, it is important to use distilled (or deionized) water as the impurities in tap water will cause it to react, venting oxygen and diminishing the quality of the remaining solution. It is also suggested to add one drop of phosphoric acid for each litre of water, to keep the pH below 4.0 – this helps to prolong the life of the solution. Store it cool and dry, away from sunlight and kiddies.
It is also essential to use a container with the special vented cap. The 38mm cap supplied on the bottle is a fairly standard size, you should be able to find a 5L bottle that will fit it (if you're really lucky, you'll find a 5L bottle of distilled water with a 38mm lid). Hydrogen Peroxide will constantly degrade over time, producing oxygen. However, the reaction is normally very slow and the concentrated product (and distilled/deionized solutions) should remain effective for many years if properly stored. Apparently they have tested this stuff after 12 years in storage and still found it to be in excellent condition.
Solutions for immediate use can be made up with tap water, and the resulting solution should be good for several days, but it depends a lot on the purity of your tap water. For peace of mind make up a new solution each day or two, or always use distilled water and it will keep indefinitely.
The dilution rates below are based on creating the equivalent hydrogen peroxide solution. The Herlisil ‘disinfection’ and ‘sanitation’ rates are those recommended for use in commercial breweries, where biological loading is high. For our purposes, it has been suggested that we could/should use a lower (‘domestic’) concentration, and apparently even a solution of 150ppm has been found to be highly effective. It is obviously up to you to decide what concentration you want to use, but I have listed the various dilution rates to use as a guide. I would suggest 500ppm as being a decent rate, this is equivalent to 10ml per 2L if using a 1:4 premix, or 10ml:10L if using the undiluted product.
For pedantic thoroughness I’ve included separate columns for making UP TO a specific volume of solution and for ADDING TO a specific volume of water – they are slightly different but really only an issue for the higher concentration ‘storage’ solutions. Once you get down to working concentrations the difference is negligible.
I have included a printed copy of this info along with copies of the safety sheets with each bottle.
Due to some confusion over the effective dilution rates for this stuff, I’ve spoken with the supplier at length and crunched the numbers, and I’ve come up with some equivalent dilution rates. I have to confess I didn’t fully appreciate just how concentrated it is, and just how little of it we need to use - you will probably never need to buy sanitiser again!
As it is, this is very concentrated, industrial grade stuff, and requires special handling. As mentioned before, it certainly cannot be shipped without the appropriate dangerous goods permit. The guy who sold it to us was extremely keen to see that everyone got a copy of the safety documentation etc. Please read it and be warned!
Herlisil FP contains 50% Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2). That’s 10 times stronger than hair bleach, and 17 times stronger than BrewShield (each 1L bottle is equivalent to about 70 x 250ml bottles of BrewShield). The best way to handle it would probably be to dilute each litre with 4 litres of distilled or deionized water (Supercheap Auto or Kmart) to create 5L of ‘premixed’ 1:4 (10% H2O2) solution, which can be kept indefinitely and further diluted with tap water before use. This is still over 3 times stronger than BrewShield, but is much less harmful than the undiluted product if spilled, and it means you don’t have to dress up like a spaceman every time you want to mix up some fresh sanitiser. The second table below gives usage rates for this ‘premix’.
You absolutely must keep this out of your eyes and throat at all costs. Even tiny quantities on the skin will turn the skin white temporarily, although the bleaching soon disappears after washing. Larger quantities however can cause burns, and contact with vulnerable areas such as eyes, nose and throat can cause extensive damage.
If you are diluting it for storage, it is important to use distilled (or deionized) water as the impurities in tap water will cause it to react, venting oxygen and diminishing the quality of the remaining solution. It is also suggested to add one drop of phosphoric acid for each litre of water, to keep the pH below 4.0 – this helps to prolong the life of the solution. Store it cool and dry, away from sunlight and kiddies.
It is also essential to use a container with the special vented cap. The 38mm cap supplied on the bottle is a fairly standard size, you should be able to find a 5L bottle that will fit it (if you're really lucky, you'll find a 5L bottle of distilled water with a 38mm lid). Hydrogen Peroxide will constantly degrade over time, producing oxygen. However, the reaction is normally very slow and the concentrated product (and distilled/deionized solutions) should remain effective for many years if properly stored. Apparently they have tested this stuff after 12 years in storage and still found it to be in excellent condition.
Solutions for immediate use can be made up with tap water, and the resulting solution should be good for several days, but it depends a lot on the purity of your tap water. For peace of mind make up a new solution each day or two, or always use distilled water and it will keep indefinitely.
The dilution rates below are based on creating the equivalent hydrogen peroxide solution. The Herlisil ‘disinfection’ and ‘sanitation’ rates are those recommended for use in commercial breweries, where biological loading is high. For our purposes, it has been suggested that we could/should use a lower (‘domestic’) concentration, and apparently even a solution of 150ppm has been found to be highly effective. It is obviously up to you to decide what concentration you want to use, but I have listed the various dilution rates to use as a guide. I would suggest 500ppm as being a decent rate, this is equivalent to 10ml per 2L if using a 1:4 premix, or 10ml:10L if using the undiluted product.
For pedantic thoroughness I’ve included separate columns for making UP TO a specific volume of solution and for ADDING TO a specific volume of water – they are slightly different but really only an issue for the higher concentration ‘storage’ solutions. Once you get down to working concentrations the difference is negligible.
I have included a printed copy of this info along with copies of the safety sheets with each bottle.
Wortgames
'Draught' is not a beer style - it's a lifestyle
What are you planning to do with 10L?!
SpillsMostOfIt
Self-Propelled, Portable Meat-Based Filtration Sys
- Joined
- 28/11/06
- Messages
- 1,690
- Reaction score
- 12
Wortgames
'Draught' is not a beer style - it's a lifestyle
You're not wrong. That would make the equivalent of nearly 700 bottles of BrewShield :blink:
If you mean 1L, Andy, there's still a spare litre available - let me know where you are and I'll drop it off to the right person this afternoon.
If anyone else wants some, I'm sure some of the guys with 2L could be persuaded to part with a litre.
Ross
CraftBrewer
- Joined
- 14/1/05
- Messages
- 9,262
- Reaction score
- 373
I know Neil has already given a warning, but PLEASE be very careful with this at these concentrations, it is extremely dangerous. The similar product I use is only 12% & that scares the s#!t out of me, it is so easy for a bit to splash back up & catch you in the face, as it did with me just last week.
For those interested, I'm looking at producing a much lower concentrated product in the near future, similar to "Sanitize" which can be sent out under normal mail.
Great buy wortgames, it's certainly my favourite sanitiser. :super:
cheers Ross
For those interested, I'm looking at producing a much lower concentrated product in the near future, similar to "Sanitize" which can be sent out under normal mail.
Great buy wortgames, it's certainly my favourite sanitiser. :super:
cheers Ross
Wortgames
'Draught' is not a beer style - it's a lifestyle
Totally agree Ross - you should see the 'warning pack' I'm supplying with this stuff!
You're welcome to use my info & figures if any of it helps in labelling yours.
I can't take all the credit for the bulk buy, Johnno had a big hand in it too. Cheers Johnno :beer:
You're welcome to use my info & figures if any of it helps in labelling yours.
I can't take all the credit for the bulk buy, Johnno had a big hand in it too. Cheers Johnno :beer:
therook
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 25/3/03
- Messages
- 1,838
- Reaction score
- 7
Wortgames
'Draught' is not a beer style - it's a lifestyle
Absolutely, it is perfectly harmless, odourless, tasteless etc when it is properly diluted, and it breaks down into nothing but oxygen fairly quickly.
Your average usage concentration will be something like 0.05% H2O2.
at 0.5% (10 x), that's strong 'industrial sanitiser';
at 5.0%, (100 x) that's hair bleach, and
at 50%, (1000 x) it'll bleach anything it touches, including eyeballs... :excl:
Had I fully appreciated this at the start I would have probably tried to get hold of a less concentrated solution, or got all the supplies to dilute it myself before distributing it - but as long as we're all sensible I'm sure we can handle it.
If anyone is really bothered about this let me know, and I'll look into getting some distilled water and a bunch more bottles and diluting it myself.
SpillsMostOfIt
Self-Propelled, Portable Meat-Based Filtration Sys
- Joined
- 28/11/06
- Messages
- 1,690
- Reaction score
- 12
Because I am that way inclined, I have just had a brief glance at the Hazardous Materials regulations regarding storage of this stuff. It is too small a quantity to be covered by the regs (so you don't need to placard your house or anything like that).
But upon reflection, I am going to keep this stuff under lock and key so that it cannot be mis-handled by anyone but me.
It is worth your while to give a little thought to how you are going to own this stuff.
But upon reflection, I am going to keep this stuff under lock and key so that it cannot be mis-handled by anyone but me.
It is worth your while to give a little thought to how you are going to own this stuff.
Wortgames
'Draught' is not a beer style - it's a lifestyle
Personally I'd really like to see people diluting it with 4 parts distilled water right from the start. That makes a 10% H2O2 solution, much less hazardous to handle. I don't think it would be a good idea to keep it neat and just make up solutions as required, because that means measuring tiny quantities and handling it too often, and we all know that familiarity breeds contempt.
Another approach might be to devote a cube to your sanitiser, and dilute it to a working concentration with distilled water. This way you'd only need to make up a fresh batch of sanitiser when you empty the cube. Distilled water is pretty cheap after all. You'd just need to drill a small hole in the lid to allow any pressure to escape.
Another approach might be to devote a cube to your sanitiser, and dilute it to a working concentration with distilled water. This way you'd only need to make up a fresh batch of sanitiser when you empty the cube. Distilled water is pretty cheap after all. You'd just need to drill a small hole in the lid to allow any pressure to escape.
Ditto WG.
So, a half second contact time is enough? I could use my inverted-bottle-liquid-squirty-thing with this diluted to the proper levels, get all the drops of this stuff out of the bottle and fill the bottle with beer within about 10 minutes?
So, that would be an already 1:4 dilution (5%) diluted again to 1:100? Yikes, that IS scary stuff.
lucas
Nanobrewer
- Joined
- 21/1/06
- Messages
- 769
- Reaction score
- 2
Big thanks for WortGames and Johnno for their parts in organising this, I look forward to not running out of sanitizer for years to come.
As an aside, my gf who works in a lab, tells me that hydrogen peroxide is UV sensitive so it would be a good idea to look for an opaque 5L container to dilute it into. If anyone finds anything that suitable, please let us all know.
As an aside, my gf who works in a lab, tells me that hydrogen peroxide is UV sensitive so it would be a good idea to look for an opaque 5L container to dilute it into. If anyone finds anything that suitable, please let us all know.
Wortgames
'Draught' is not a beer style - it's a lifestyle
Hi all,
Just to let you know that ArnieW, Lukes and NRB's orders are with Lucas, and RobW and Spillmost's orders are with Velophile, so if you haven't already, PM them to arrange a suitable pickup time.
Therook, Wardhog, and Murray can pick theirs up from me whenever they are in the area - if you haven't got my mobile # PM me and I'll give it to you.
Hi Andy, you might be able to tee something up with arniew, lukes or NRB - all of those guys got 2L each, and are in your neck of the woods. Given the new information about the strength of this stuff I'm sure someone would be happy to sell you a litre! If you have no luck let me know and we'll sort something out from here.
Just to let you know that ArnieW, Lukes and NRB's orders are with Lucas, and RobW and Spillmost's orders are with Velophile, so if you haven't already, PM them to arrange a suitable pickup time.
Therook, Wardhog, and Murray can pick theirs up from me whenever they are in the area - if you haven't got my mobile # PM me and I'll give it to you.
I did mean 1L - one of those days
Hi Andy, you might be able to tee something up with arniew, lukes or NRB - all of those guys got 2L each, and are in your neck of the woods. Given the new information about the strength of this stuff I'm sure someone would be happy to sell you a litre! If you have no luck let me know and we'll sort something out from here.
Similar threads
