Sanitation, Yeast, Bulk Priming And A Stupid Question

[Strange Dog]

Hello,

I am about to do my second brew on the weekend (was going to be last weekend but the cat ate my sachet of yeast) and I have some questions about sanitation and some other things.

Question 1 : Sanitation

I went to my LHBS (I'm guessing this means "Local Home Brew Shop"?) to get some stuff to clean out my fermenter after my previous brew. They recommended some Iodine stuff (orangy-brown liquid) which looked like it did not come from a large manufacturer (plain adhesive label). It is to be diluted 10mL per litre of water. They recommended just spraying it all over everything (including inside the bottles) using a water spray bottle, allowing it to drain and then I would be good to go, without rinsing. I asked about "Star San", as I think this is something that always comes up in threads about sanitation that I read. They gave me a blank look and assured me the stuff they gave me is what I need. They had never heard of Star San.

So any idea on what it actually is that I have, and whether it is any good? The shop is very reputable in my neck of the woods so they are not amatuers, but it surprised me that they knew nothing about Star San since in these forums every man and his dog seems to use it.

Assuming I am not the only person in the world to be using this iodine stuff, is it enough to give everything a good spray and leave it for a while (how long?). Do I need to soak anything? How much is enough? If I am wiping stuff down with a cloth (chux super wipe?) do I need to also sanitise the cloth? I really dont want to screw up an entire brew just because I didnt clean properly.

Question 2 : Yeast

For my first brew I used the sachet provided with the Coopers lager kit but I decided this time to use yeast specifically for lagers as they apparently do better at low temperatures such as the 10-12 degrees my house is in winter. I think I got SAF 23 (I'm not entirely sure, the cat also ate half of the plastic packet the yeast came in) ? That got me wondering whether the only thing to take into consideration when choosing yeast is the temperature at which it will need to ferment. My guess is no, since there are "ale" yeasts, "lager" yeasts and god knows what else. Unless the descriptions on the labels are just ways of describing fermentation temperature? If this is not the case then what other factors go into your yeast selection? I am planning my third brew to be Canadian Blonde, so how do I know what yeast to use for that unless there is a yeast out there called "Canadian Blonde"? At the moment the only thing I look at is the range of fermentation temps, what else should I be considering?

Question 3 : Bulk Priming

It recently occurred to me that my ever growing collection of Stella Artois stubbies are actually not 375mL, so carbonation drop are probably not a good idea. This has lead me to considering bulk priming. However, I do not have a second fermenter. Is it possible to bulk prime with only one fermenter? If so, how do you stir in the sugar without stirring up all the sediment ("trub"?). Also, what do you actually use for sugar in bulk priming? Regular table sugar? The same stuff you add when you first put the brew down (meltodextrine or whatever?)

Stupid Question : Bonus Points

Now that I have lost any shred of street cred, I have a really stupid question for you just out of sheer curiosity. What happens if the only things you put in your fermenter are water, sugar and yeast? Do you just end up with lightly carbonated, alcoholic water ?

 

[bignath]

Hello,

I am about to do my second brew on the weekend (was going to be last weekend but the cat ate my sachet of yeast) and I have some questions about sanitation and some other things.

Question 1 : Sanitation

I went to my LHBS (I'm guessing this means "Local Home Brew Shop"?) to get some stuff to clean out my fermenter after my previous brew. They recommended some Iodine stuff (orangy-brown liquid) which looked like it did not come from a large manufacturer (plain adhesive label). It is to be diluted 10mL per litre of water. They recommended just spraying it all over everything (including inside the bottles) using a water spray bottle, allowing it to drain and then I would be good to go, without rinsing. I asked about "Star San", as I think this is something that always comes up in threads about sanitation that I read. They gave me a blank look and assured me the stuff they gave me is what I need. They had never heard of Star San.

So any idea on what it actually is that I have, and whether it is any good? The shop is very reputable in my neck of the woods so they are not amatuers, but it surprised me that they knew nothing about Star San since in these forums every man and his dog seems to use it.

Assuming I am not the only person in the world to be using this iodine stuff, is it enough to give everything a good spray and leave it for a while (how long?). Do I need to soak anything? How much is enough? If I am wiping stuff down with a cloth (chux super wipe?) do I need to also sanitise the cloth? I really dont want to screw up an entire brew just because I didnt clean properly.

Question 2 : Yeast

For my first brew I used the sachet provided with the Coopers lager kit but I decided this time to use yeast specifically for lagers as they apparently do better at low temperatures such as the 10-12 degrees my house is in winter. I think I got SAF 23 (I'm not entirely sure, the cat also ate half of the plastic packet the yeast came in) ? That got me wondering whether the only thing to take into consideration when choosing yeast is the temperature at which it will need to ferment. My guess is no, since there are "ale" yeasts, "lager" yeasts and god knows what else. Unless the descriptions on the labels are just ways of describing fermentation temperature? If this is not the case then what other factors go into your yeast selection? I am planning my third brew to be Canadian Blonde, so how do I know what yeast to use for that unless there is a yeast out there called "Canadian Blonde"? At the moment the only thing I look at is the range of fermentation temps, what else should I be considering?

Question 3 : Bulk Priming

It recently occurred to me that my ever growing collection of Stella Artois stubbies are actually not 375mL, so carbonation drop are probably not a good idea. This has lead me to considering bulk priming. However, I do not have a second fermenter. Is it possible to bulk prime with only one fermenter? If so, how do you stir in the sugar without stirring up all the sediment ("trub"?). Also, what do you actually use for sugar in bulk priming? Regular table sugar? The same stuff you add when you first put the brew down (meltodextrine or whatever?)

Stupid Question : Bonus Points

Now that I have lost any shred of street cred, I have a really stupid question for you just out of sheer curiosity. What happens if the only things you put in your fermenter are water, sugar and yeast? Do you just end up with lightly carbonated, alcoholic water ?

Strange Dog,

you've probably got a product called "Iodophor" which is very common in homebrewing circles. If it's not that, it's something very similar i bet. It's a great product. Strange that they hadn't heard of StarSan though. they are often mentioned in the same threads together....

Re: Bulk Priming.

Personally i hate the carbo drops. Too irregular to be accurate for my money. Having said that, they are designed to be fine for a 375ml or 2 in a 750ml. Should be fine, if they are uniform in weight.....
Don't bulk prime your primary fermenter. Grab another vessel (cube, fermenter, jerry can whatever). Make up a solution of hot/boiling water that will dissolve the TOTAL quantity of sugar you would have used to carbonate the batch. Put this solution into the second "vessel". Carefully transfer beer from primary fermenter into the second vessel with some tubing. The action this creates is enough to mix the sugar solution through the beer.

Bottle the beer from the second vessel.

Re: water, sugar and yeast?

What you'll get if you combine those three ingredients only, will very closely resemble West End Draught.

A fine beer in any bogans language....

 

[Diesel80]

Question 2 : Yeast

For my first brew I used the sachet provided with the Coopers lager kit but I decided this time to use yeast specifically for lagers as they apparently do better at low temperatures such as the 10-12 degrees my house is in winter. I think I got SAF 23 (I'm not entirely sure, the cat also ate half of the plastic packet the yeast came in) ? That got me wondering whether the only thing to take into consideration when choosing yeast is the temperature at which it will need to ferment. My guess is no, since there are "ale" yeasts, "lager" yeasts and god knows what else. Unless the descriptions on the labels are just ways of describing fermentation temperature? If this is not the case then what other factors go into your yeast selection? I am planning my third brew to be Canadian Blonde, so how do I know what yeast to use for that unless there is a yeast out there called "Canadian Blonde"? At the moment the only thing I look at is the range of fermentation temps, what else should I be considering?

I can provide some feedback on this point re: the SAFLager S-23 yeast you are looking at using.
I used this to ferment a munich lager based beer @ 12-14 degrees over 3 weeks. I pitched 1 packet only and it was under-gunned.
If temp is to be below 15, instructions on the back of the pack recommend 2x packets. I would heed this advice.

Also at 12-14 deg i found that the beer i was expecting to be quite a dry lager, turned out fruity in flavour. Yeast was pitched at 14-15 deg so don't think it was not a case of pitching at a temp much higher than target ferment temps. Further research on the interwebs highlighted the strain of yeast as the likely culprit. Just giving you a heads up.

The fruity taste may dissipate, i only kegged it for storage on Sunday just gone, so early days yet.

Good luck!
D80

 

[mwd]

If it is Iodophor check the dilution ratio should be 1ml per litre ( if not follow directions on bottle) Iodophor is very pale golden brown when diluted.

 

[Kieren]

Iodophor is a sanitiser not a cleaner, two very different things. A sanitiser shouldn't be used to clean. You must clean before you sanitise. Cleaners people use are PBW, bleach, sodium percarbonate (napisan) ...

 

[bignath]

Iodophor is a sanitiser not a cleaner, two very different things. A sanitiser shouldn't be used to clean. You must clean before you sanitise. Cleaners people use are PBW, bleach, sodium percarbonate (napisan) ...

who said it was a cleaner?

 

[scooza]

who said it was a cleaner?

i assume from question 1 in op.

 

[Paxton]

Stupid Question : Bonus Points

Now that I have lost any shred of street cred, I have a really stupid question for you just out of sheer curiosity. What happens if the only things you put in your fermenter are water, sugar and yeast? Do you just end up with lightly carbonated, alcoholic water ?

You get what is commonly known as a Sugar Wash. You can then go one step further (with some specialist equipment) and turn this sugar wash into pure alcohol.

 

[bignath]

i assume from question 1 in op.

Ahhh shit.....Feel like a complete cockhead right about now.

Note to self - read all post carefully from now on...

Apologies to Kieren, sorry mate, thought you were having a mild crack at my description.


Carry on gentlemen, nothing to see here.....

 

[scooza]

Ahhh shit.....Feel like a complete cockhead right about now.

Note to self - read all post carefully from now on...

Apologies to Kieren, sorry mate, thought you were having a mild crack at my description.


Carry on gentlemen, nothing to see here.....

:blink: :lol:
:beer:

 

[stux]

Hello,

I am about to do my second brew on the weekend (was going to be last weekend but the cat ate my sachet of yeast) and I have some questions about sanitation and some other things.

Question 1 : Sanitation

I went to my LHBS (I'm guessing this means "Local Home Brew Shop"?) to get some stuff to clean out my fermenter after my previous brew. They recommended some Iodine stuff (orangy-brown liquid) which looked like it did not come from a large manufacturer (plain adhesive label). It is to be diluted 10mL per litre of water. They recommended just spraying it all over everything (including inside the bottles) using a water spray bottle, allowing it to drain and then I would be good to go, without rinsing. I asked about "Star San", as I think this is something that always comes up in threads about sanitation that I read. They gave me a blank look and assured me the stuff they gave me is what I need. They had never heard of Star San.

So any idea on what it actually is that I have, and whether it is any good? The shop is very reputable in my neck of the woods so they are not amatuers, but it surprised me that they knew nothing about Star San since in these forums every man and his dog seems to use it.

Assuming I am not the only person in the world to be using this iodine stuff, is it enough to give everything a good spray and leave it for a while (how long?). Do I need to soak anything? How much is enough? If I am wiping stuff down with a cloth (chux super wipe?) do I need to also sanitise the cloth? I really dont want to screw up an entire brew just because I didnt clean properly.

Sounds like iodophor, which is a fantastic santizer. I use both starsan and iodophor depending on my mood.

BUT iodophor is normally 1ml/L

You also need to use a cleaner of some sort to get rid of the organic soiling

So you soak/wash with the cleaner, then rinse it out, then soak/spray with the no-rinse sanitizer.

iirc iodophor should not be used warm/hot.

I use PBW as a cleaner, but you can't get that at my HBS stores.

Question 2 : Yeast

For my first brew I used the sachet provided with the Coopers lager kit but I decided this time to use yeast specifically for lagers as they apparently do better at low temperatures such as the 10-12 degrees my house is in winter. I think I got SAF 23 (I'm not entirely sure, the cat also ate half of the plastic packet the yeast came in) ? That got me wondering whether the only thing to take into consideration when choosing yeast is the temperature at which it will need to ferment. My guess is no, since there are "ale" yeasts, "lager" yeasts and god knows what else. Unless the descriptions on the labels are just ways of describing fermentation temperature? If this is not the case then what other factors go into your yeast selection? I am planning my third brew to be Canadian Blonde, so how do I know what yeast to use for that unless there is a yeast out there called "Canadian Blonde"? At the moment the only thing I look at is the range of fermentation temps, what else should I be considering?

Different yeasts impart different flavours. And work at different temperatures.

S23 is a lager yeast and works well between 9 and 12C

US-05 is a good clean neutral ale yeast (it will work at warmer temperatures) and is very neutral so the hop flavours of your beer come out. Good ferment temps are between 16 and 18C, depending on if how clean you want it

Wheat yeasts are good for wheat beers

S04 is a more british style and will have more a more fruity flavour

Eventually you can get into Liquid yeasts, which allow you to use the actual yeast which is used for a famous beer when making beer similar, for example, Guiness

If you're using dry yeasts, look into rehydrating the yeast

Question 3 : Bulk Priming

It recently occurred to me that my ever growing collection of Stella Artois stubbies are actually not 375mL, so carbonation drop are probably not a good idea. This has lead me to considering bulk priming. However, I do not have a second fermenter. Is it possible to bulk prime with only one fermenter? If so, how do you stir in the sugar without stirring up all the sediment ("trub"?). Also, what do you actually use for sugar in bulk priming? Regular table sugar? The same stuff you add when you first put the brew down (meltodextrine or whatever?)

Stupid Question : Bonus Points

Now that I have lost any shred of street cred, I have a really stupid question for you just out of sheer curiosity. What happens if the only things you put in your fermenter are water, sugar and yeast? Do you just end up with lightly carbonated, alcoholic water ?

Lets just say "no" on bulk priming in the primary fermenter

Either get another fermenter, or a large bucket, or a jerry can etc.

I would use Dextrose, which is probably what you mean as your brewing sugar, rather than table sugar. This is the same stuff you *might* use as your kilo in your kit & kilo, but you could use more malt, or anything.

 

[Strange Dog]

OK, I have just checked the label on the bottle and it is called "Iosan", and it is diluted 1:1000 as some of you pointed out.

So apparently this is only PART of what I have to use to get my gear ready for another brew (I was incorrectly assuming that cleaning and sanitizing was one and the same) ? I have the Iosan for sanitising, so what about cleaning? I would like to go with bleach if possible, since it is cheap and I already have some unscented bleach on hand.

So my plan is, use diluted bleach (what dilution ratio should I use?) with chux wipes to clean everything, rinse it out and then spray with Iosan and leave it for 20 minutes or so and then proceeding with my next brew. Does all this sound right ?

Thanks for all the tips so far, much appreciated. Also, Diesel80, what does "under-gunned" mean?

 

[Wolfy]

So apparently this is only PART of what I have to use to get my gear ready for another brew (I was incorrectly assuming that cleaning and sanitizing was one and the same) ? I have the Iosan for sanitising, so what about cleaning? I would like to go with bleach if possible, since it is cheap and I already have some unscented bleach on hand.

Yes you were incorrect, all your gear must be thoroughly cleaned before it can be sanitized, any remaining dirt, gunk or other stuff will mean that the sanitizer cannot do it's job properly.

Bleach is also more a sanitizer (actually it's more a disinfectant but same thing really) than it is a cleaner, so while you can use a strong solution of bleach to clean, its not good for stainless steel and if you do not rinse it very well it can leave off-flavours in your beer. One of the more popular and cheap cleaners is Sodium percarbonate (which is the active ingredient in Nappisan type products) so using a generic brand unscented oxy-cleaning type product would probably be just as cheap as using bleach but also a better option.

 

[Strange Dog]

Ahh yes I recall seeing napisan appearing in some threads and thinking that it didn't sound very safe. So if I go the napisan route, what would I look for in the supermarket(I am not very knowledgeable about nappy cleaning products)? Just buy a "box" of napisan and follow the instructions on the box?

 

[Wolfy]

I use 'pure' Sodium percarbonate (which you can't buy at the supermarket, but can buy similar products at some LHBS) and that breaks down into hydrogen peroxide (=water and oxygen) and soda ash, which are fine to use as cleaners. The napisan stuff in the supermarket has other stuff in it, but many people use it without complaint, just try to find one that is 'non scented' and you should be fine.

 

[yum beer]

Napisan works a treat.....look for the home brand/cheapy version and avoid any with perfumes.....you want it unscented.

I wash my fermenter out after bottling with hot water and a chux cloth to get all the gunk off, rinse it out with hot water.

I then put a lid of napisan in fermenter and top up with hot water...use the laundry sink...it will foam up.
Let it sit for 10-20 minutes then drain through the tap till empty....rinse out with hot water.



Add your sanitiser and prepare your brew....

 

[rendo]

Napisan ROCKS....its fantastic for cleaning just about all your gear (and bottles). I think the safest option, far more so than bleach/vinegar (which also rocks, really rocks, but MUCH caution is needed and I only use when i need to NUKE things)


Just put a level cap full in your fermenter and fill it up with med-hot water and let it soak for 24 hours, chuck all your other things in there too, eg taps, spoons, watever u have used, gets them nice and clean.

Once done, give it a good rinse or two and u wont be happier.!!

I use the Woolworths select Soaker (no affiliation...kinda/sorta....but just a happy consumer). Just buy the 2kg tub and ur set! Sometimes it is on half price special. Others can often have a scent, eg lemon, eucalyptus, etc etc, u dont want a strong perfume scent in ur fermenter. I believe coles and aldi also sell an unscented one, but the woolies one (i think) has the most amount of sodium perc (the active ingredient).





rendo

Ahh yes I recall seeing napisan appearing in some threads and thinking that it didn't sound very safe. So if I go the napisan route, what would I look for in the supermarket(I am not very knowledgeable about nappy cleaning products)? Just buy a "box" of napisan and follow the instructions on the box?

 

[rendo]

I then put a lid of napisan in fermenter and top up with hot water...use the laundry sink...it will foam up.

Hey YUM & all...

Ur right, it does foam up, but a good and simple way to get around the foaming up is to.....
1)Fill the fermenter up with the water first, then
2) add the napisan
3) give it a good stir or two

All good, no (or far less foam)

Happy days!
Rendo

 

[Kieren]

Ahhh shit.....Feel like a complete cockhead right about now.

Note to self - read all post carefully from now on...

Apologies to Kieren, sorry mate, thought you were having a mild crack at my description.


Carry on gentlemen, nothing to see here.....

No worries.

I just wanted to make sure the OP new the difference between cleaning and sanitising.

 

[thylacine]

Hello,

I am about to do my second brew on the weekend (was going to be last weekend but the cat ate my sachet of yeast) and I have some questions about sanitation and some other things.

Question 1 : Sanitation

I went to my LHBS (I'm guessing this means "Local Home Brew Shop"?) to get some stuff to clean out my fermenter after my previous brew. They recommended some Iodine stuff (orangy-brown liquid) which looked like it did not come from a large manufacturer (plain adhesive label). It is to be diluted 10mL per litre of water. They recommended just spraying it all over everything (including inside the bottles) using a water spray bottle, allowing it to drain and then I would be good to go, without rinsing. I asked about "Star San", as I think this is something that always comes up in threads about sanitation that I read. They gave me a blank look and assured me the stuff they gave me is what I need. They had never heard of Star San.

So any idea on what it actually is that I have, and whether it is any good? The shop is very reputable in my neck of the woods so they are not amatuers, but it surprised me that they knew nothing about Star San since in these forums every man and his dog seems to use it.

Assuming I am not the only person in the world to be using this iodine stuff, is it enough to give everything a good spray and leave it for a while (how long?). Do I need to soak anything? How much is enough? If I am wiping stuff down with a cloth (chux super wipe?) do I need to also sanitise the cloth? I really dont want to screw up an entire brew just because I didnt clean properly.

Question 2 : Yeast

For my first brew I used the sachet provided with the Coopers lager kit but I decided this time to use yeast specifically for lagers as they apparently do better at low temperatures such as the 10-12 degrees my house is in winter. I think I got SAF 23 (I'm not entirely sure, the cat also ate half of the plastic packet the yeast came in) ? That got me wondering whether the only thing to take into consideration when choosing yeast is the temperature at which it will need to ferment. My guess is no, since there are "ale" yeasts, "lager" yeasts and god knows what else. Unless the descriptions on the labels are just ways of describing fermentation temperature? If this is not the case then what other factors go into your yeast selection? I am planning my third brew to be Canadian Blonde, so how do I know what yeast to use for that unless there is a yeast out there called "Canadian Blonde"? At the moment the only thing I look at is the range of fermentation temps, what else should I be considering?

Question 3 : Bulk Priming

It recently occurred to me that my ever growing collection of Stella Artois stubbies are actually not 375mL, so carbonation drop are probably not a good idea. This has lead me to considering bulk priming. However, I do not have a second fermenter. Is it possible to bulk prime with only one fermenter? If so, how do you stir in the sugar without stirring up all the sediment ("trub"?). Also, what do you actually use for sugar in bulk priming? Regular table sugar? The same stuff you add when you first put the brew down (meltodextrine or whatever?)

Stupid Question : Bonus Points

Now that I have lost any shred of street cred, I have a really stupid question for you just out of sheer curiosity. What happens if the only things you put in your fermenter are water, sugar and yeast? Do you just end up with lightly carbonated, alcoholic water ?

If you are in Canberra, stay away from the tobacco/homebrew shops. See Colin (LHBS) in Kambah. Located behind the Woolies complex.

Cheers