Medicine Taste

[flattop]

Last month i brottled an ESB Smokey Belgian kit, it's a 3kilo kit, not much to stuff up.
When i bottled it had a medicine scent and flavor.
Not familiar with the style i thought it was the smokey backdrop and just needed time to mature.
A month on this taste a bit milder but still with the same taste. I'm a bit sus.

Anyhow today i prepared to bottle a Cascade Spicy Ghost and when i tasted the hydrometer sample it had the same medicinal taste.
It was brewed in the same fermenter as the Smokey Belgian.
Both brews were kept in the low 20*s and i cleaned the fermenter with bleach between brews and left it in the sun for a day.
I also wash the fermenter with boiling water when preparing a fresh brew

I turfed most of the 2nd brew, i bottled 10 just in case but i am fairly sure the flavor is identical.
I believe the fermenter is infected.
Unfortunately i batch primed for the 2nd brew and racked the beer into my best fermenter, now i am afraid i have infected both....

Is anyone familiar with this taste?

 

[wambesi]

Check out Palmers notes on off flavours.

He mentions the medicinal taste and how it can be attributed to certain cleaners/sanitisers. One of which just happens to be what your using looking at your sig.
It may just be that, I have found it before and think it came from the sanitiser I used at the time.

It could also be an infection though, have a read through and see if it matches any others listed.

 

[Zwickel]

Hi flattop,

this medical flavor might come from 4-vinylphenol. 4-vinylphenol is derivated from ferula acid, 4-vinylguajakol is the mother substance.

Mostly is built from certain grain at a mash temp around 40C in collaboration with a top fermenting yeast.

Sorry for my poor english, its allittle bit too complicated for me to express it in right words.


Cheers :icon_cheers:

 

[flattop]

Checked Palmers already, i don't think it's leftover bleach.... more likely sanitation

 

[wambesi]

Checked Palmers already, i don't think it's leftover bleach.... more likely sanitation

Could be, maybe change type and see if there is a difference. Are they properly drained after sanitising?
I know they all say no rinse but they should be drained of it still so as to reduce off flavours - my 2c anyway.

 

[schooey]

In my (somewhat limited) experience, the plasticy medicinal taste is usually from phenolics, as mentioned previously by zwickel. Have a google and see what you come up with.

 

[kirem]

Have you ever used brettanomyces/dekkera yeast or likely to have it floating around from an empty bottle of orval or another commercial with brett yeast in it?

 

[buttersd70]

I was thinking brett, and presume that's what zwickel was hinting at.

 

[kirem]

I am not terribly experienced with brett in beers but it does take a lot longer than a couple of months to develop some noticeable brett characters in wine, so I would be inclined to look at the bleach angle first.

 

[Weizguy]

Sounds like a wild yeast contamination to me. Didn't anyone think of this?
Phenolics, medicine, band-aids.
Unpleasant and does not dissipate with age.

Looks like a few new year beers goin' down the sink/bathtub/on the lawn.

I'm sorry for your loss.

 

[Muggus]

What yeast did you use Flattop?
I've come across medicinal flavours from using old yeast starters that had weren't all to healthy.

You say you sampled these from a hydrometer (tube)...have you had a taste without the hydrometer?
Samples from hydrometers directly could be affected by the tube itself. If it hasn't been well cleaned it might have some gunk in it that could make your beer taste off drinking from it. Really outthere suggestion, but i've had some pretty nastily dirty hydrometer tubes in my time that stunk of infection! :icon_vomit:

 

[dr K]

Its infected
EOS
It is not Brett its just some crap that is lurking around. Stop using bleach, it sux, contact one of the sponsors and buy something decent.

K

 

[Darren]

Sounds like a wild yeast contamination to me. Didn't anyone think of this?
Phenolics, medicine, band-aids.
Unpleasant and does not dissipate with age.

That would also be my guess. However, could simply be phenolics from the "belgian yeast"

cheers

Darren

 

[petesbrew]

Flattop, I had about 4-5 brews this time last year in a row with that taste.
I kept one 6 months - it was a partial so I was reluctant to chuck it, but it ended up down the drain.
It really sucks.

I put it down to 3 things: (uneducated guesses)
1. I hear it's down to chlorine in the water, so maybe a campden tablet will help, however I've never used one yet.... just what I've been told.
2. It was the 1st and last time I used homebrand nappisan... I'm sticking with bleach now.
3. Wild yeast infection, something in the summer air, or heat.

Basically I suggest getting a few cans of homebrand lager & sugar, and brewing the infection out.
Save up 2L coke bottles to bottle any that taste good enough to drink... hey' it's just homebrand... no point wasting good longnecks.

Once the medicinal flavour has gone, get back to brewing good beers.
Hope this helps mate.
Pete

 

[petesbrew]

That would also be my guess. However, could simply be phenolics from the "belgian yeast"

cheers

Darren

From memory the yeast supplied was Safale US-05?
That smokey belgian is an awesome kit.
It tastes like bushfire, smoked ham & smoked cheese in a schooner.

 

[flattop]

Ok, I don't think it's the bleach as my other fermenter is fine and i use the same bleach for both.
Same with the water.
It could be sanitation although i am fairly thorough there are places that are hard to clean such as the tap.
Usually my fermenters sit in bleach solution overnight, rinsed, a day in the sun and then a rinse with sterilizing solution and a rinse with boiling water just before i start the new brew.
I don't think it's the Belgian yeast, the ESB kits are usually pretty good. Wild yeast is a possibility but a long shot and even so i would have thought my cleaning regime should kill off any yeast before the next brew, this is my 2nd infection in a row from the same fermenter.

As a side note, i pitched US-05 slurry on the 2nd brew as the original Cascade yeast failed to fire after 2 days. But seen as the taste is identical to the Smokey Belgian i tend to think the infection was already there.

I think i will try Pete's suggestion and throw in a cheap K&K next time. The temps are in the 30's this week in Melbourne so i wont be brewing for a week, a good chance to soak and sanitize everything.

 

[kabooby]

It could be sanitation although i am fairly thorough there are places that are hard to clean such as the tap.

Why are the taps hard to clean? Pull the tap out and pull it apart. If you put a peice of dowel (I use a wooden spoon) into the end of the tap and give it a whack, the taps come apart. That way you can clean and sanitise them properly.

Kabooby

 

[flattop]

didn't know it was that easy, i bought a new tap today for about $2.50...

 

[flattop]

Looks like Phenol may be the culprit one way or the other

http://brewiki.org/BeerFlavours#head-0965c...14d93a50cbd9242

"6. Phenolics

They are considered as a signature in certain styles such as wheat beers "underlying spicy clove-like phenols and fruity (banana) esters complementing." and low levels are acceptable in Australian Bitters. They are also "part of the style" for most belgian beers.

Phenols can also react with chlorine to form chlorophenols. Some of these have very low taste thresholds. Chlorophenols smell like band-aids or nappies (unused ones), or a distinctive plasticy/medicinal aroma."

 

[goomboogo]

I don't subscribe to the concept of brewing out an infection using cheap ingredients. If the only thing that changes is the types of fermentables I fail to see how this is going to help rid the system of an infection. Cleaning and sanitation are more likely to be successful than brewing another infected batch of beer.