Medicine Taste

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I don't subscribe to the concept of brewing out an infection using cheap ingredients. If the only thing that changes is the types of fermentables I fail to see how this is going to help rid the system of an infection. Cleaning and sanitation are more likely to be successful than brewing another infected batch of beer.

After having a bad run, like I said above, I was hesitant in spending good money and time on quality kits, if they were gonna get infected. I just wanted to make sure I could get a decent batch out again... Just an idea that worked for me.
By the way, while the infection went, those kits were still pretty wrong. :rolleyes:
Cheers
 
Agreed, but i think the point is rather not to waste good quality expensive ingredients, rather trial a cheap kit that doesn't hurt the back pocket if you have to tip it.
I was just about to go AG which doubles the cost.... i would prefer to tip out a kit than an AG
 
Flatop I feel your pain. I just lost a Bohemian pils, my second 3rd partial. It had a bloody terrible smell and taste ( band aids, medicinal, antiseptic etc.) I let it go for about a week to be sure, and well, I was sure. She was gone! My next brew in the fermenter ( a robust porter) is smelling slightly similar after 3 days in primary. I feel like crying or smashing something!!

One thing I noticed is that the krausen in both these brews looks unusual. It is very light in colour and texture and extremely foamy, much like the bubbles you would get from bubble bath. Not sure if this is a symptom???

I spoke to Ross from Craftbrewer and he informed me that the smell is characteristic of a wild yeast infection. I mash and boil outside under a balcony and cool with an immersion chiller. Nearby is large poinciana tree. Ross said that it is common for infections to take hold as nasties settle in the afternoon summer air. This is also magnified if it becomes windy. He knew of a brewer who used to brew outside near a tree and lost a large number of brews to wild yeast infections.

Im am now going to turn to the no chill method to avoid getting any further infections.

Oh by the way, this second infected brew (if it turns out that way) was in a different fermenter to the last one!
 
didn't know it was that easy, i bought a new tap today for about $2.50...
Spend a little extra and buy a snap tap.
They are designed to come apart for easy cleaning and will last ages.
Cost about 8 bucks or thereabouts.
 
Infected again....!!!!!!!
This time i soaked the fermenter in an almost neat bleach, about 2liters and rotated it top/bottom, side to side until it had spent hours on each surface.
I pulled apart the tap and cleaned it. Then it spend 2 days with 2 liters of sodium met solution.
Rinsed with boiling water and pitched a new brew...
2 days on i already know it's infected, a strange dark brown krausen with lots of bubbles, the band aid smell and i sampled a little and it's medicinal but sweet wort underneath.
It appears the infection takes hold in the early stages of fermentation.

I will toss out this fermenter as i have lost 3 brews to it now. It is cheaper to buy a new one than to recover the old one.
My concern is that the infection may still be around in the bottles or worse, in my sanitizing process.

All my plans for AG are on hold until i can sort out this mess.
 
Infected again....!!!!!!!
This time i soaked the fermenter in an almost neat bleach, about 2liters and rotated it top/bottom, side to side until it had spent hours on each surface.
I pulled apart the tap and cleaned it. Then it spend 2 days with 2 liters of sodium met solution.
Rinsed with boiling water and pitched a new brew...
2 days on i already know it's infected, a strange dark brown krausen with lots of bubbles, the band aid smell and i sampled a little and it's medicinal but sweet wort underneath.
It appears the infection takes hold in the early stages of fermentation.

I will toss out this fermenter as i have lost 3 brews to it now. It is cheaper to buy a new one than to recover the old one.
My concern is that the infection may still be around in the bottles or worse, in my sanitizing process.

All my plans for AG are on hold until i can sort out this mess.

G'day Ffattop,

I don't know if this has already been asked, but are you fermenting in a fridge?
If so, have you sanitised it as well?
Also ditch the sod met, there are much better safer more effective sanitisers than that stuff.

Cheers,
BB
 
No fridge but temps here are stable enough for the last few days. around 21* brew temp.
 
I think you have a number of points here that need highlighting. I suspect that the Belgian Smokey brew is fine and your Cascade Ghost is infected. The most recent brew is probably contaminated by your harsh bleach wash.

A Belgian Smokey brew is probably going to have phenols in it as part of the flavour profile. Depending on the yeast and ferment temperature, these will be present at higher levels.

Not familiar with the style i thought it was the smokey backdrop and just needed time to mature.
A month on this taste a bit milder but still with the same taste. I'm a bit sus.

An infection taste gets stronger as it ages, as the infection is still carrying on its nasty work. It doesn't get weaker. Also you mention that you are not familiar with the style, which means you may not be used to the flavour profiles.

This time i soaked the fermenter in an almost neat bleach, about 2liters and rotated it top/bottom, side to side until it had spent hours on each surface.
I pulled apart the tap and cleaned it. Then it spend 2 days with 2 liters of sodium met solution.

Neat bleach may cause bleach residue to stay in the plastic and slowly leach into your next brew causing nasty bleach flavours. Always use bleach at the correct concentrations for cleaning, which is about 1/2 a cup in a full fermenter. Because you are dealing with a possible infection that has a flavour profile that is also attributable to bleach contamination, it is time to use another cleaner.

As has been mentioned in numerous threads, sodium met is not very effective when used in beer brewing applications. GET RID OF IT and move onto a better sanitiser such as phosphoric acid, iodine, hydrogen peroxide or starsan. Sodim met has to be used fresh, it is more effective at a lower pH and it does not kill everything.

As a side note, i pitched US-05 slurry on the 2nd brew as the original Cascade yeast failed to fire after 2 days. But seen as the taste is identical to the Smokey Belgian i tend to think the infection was already there.

The Cascade brew failed to fire after two days, this is highly likely to now be infected, nothing to do with the Smokey Belgian, two days is plenty of time for a wild yeast to do its evil work. This brew will get progressivley worse in flavour, that's if it is drinkable now.

The most recent problem can be due to your very harsh bleaching procedure. If it is present and detectable 3 days into a good strong active ferment, I don't think it is some sort of infection. Usually, infections are not obvious early in fermentation, they raise their heads later in the bottle.

Get rid of the sodium met.
Use something else besides bleach as a cleaner.
Get along to a brewclub and have your beers tasted. This is going to stop your paranoid feelings for your next brews.

Make sure you revise sanitation. Every surface that contacts your brew must be clean and sanitised. Where do you put your spoon down? Where do you source your water from? Do you open ferment? There are many sources of infection, but usually using decent sanitation and a good active yeast will counter infections.
 
Sounds like a wild yeast contamination to me. Didn't anyone think of this?
Phenolics, medicine, band-aids.
Unpleasant and does not dissipate with age.

Looks like a few new year beers goin' down the sink/bathtub/on the lawn.

I'm sorry for your loss.


Agree 100% - Very common this time of year.

Bad luck.... Ross
 
The Cascade brew failed to fire after two days, this is highly likely to now be infected, nothing to do with the Smokey Belgian, two days is plenty of time for a wild yeast to do its evil work. This brew will get progressivley worse in flavour, that's if it is drinkable now.

Agree with everything you said pol, but not this comment completely.
In context with the thread yes it would be, but if you are careful with your procedures you could be right.
I've had some not fire up for 36 or so (maybe even 48) and turn out fine.

However it does run the risk (high as you stated) of infection, so cleanliness and sanitisation levels need to be right.
 
I started getting this same off flavour in some of my bottles, but not in any of my kegs.. except one huge double batch that I kegged in a CUB keg. Since I was only getting it in a few bottles from each batch (mainly because I only bottle 5-6 longnecks per brew and keg the rest), I didn't worry too much about it. If the aroma was bad when I opened a bottle, i just dumped it out and moved on.

Here's the odd bit, one SOME of the bottles would have this off flavour. I took a sample to the LHBS and was told that it was most likely an infection. Then I took it to Christoff, at Zierholz Brewery in Fyshwick and asked him. Poor bloke even TASTED it! His reply was that it definitey was NOT an infection, but was almost certainly my sanitiser. I initially used the Brewcraft Brewshield and did not experience any off flavours, but when that ran out, I bought a bottle of some other brand (mosly blue lable on it) and the problems started. I have since moved to Star San and the problem is GONE.

I am suggesting that while I am not a great source of brewing knowledge, Christoff is, and if he tells me that the off taste is from my snaitiser... and then changing sanitisers fixed the problem... then I am pretty sure that he was right. Either way, the taste is gone, the bottle are all as good as the kegs and I am a happy man.

Lose the bleach, go the Star San (five star chemical group... talk to Ross) and live happily ever after. It works out cheaper than thje bleach as well, and it's a not rinse contact sanitiser.

my .04
 
Ok
With time to think clearly i think i can state this much.
The Smokey Belgian is definitely infected, i did a side by side taste against the few bottles of the Cascade1 brew i did and they had the same band aid medicine flavor.
I brewed a second Cascade2 with yeast that did fire, i tasted it daily, after a few days the taste had surfaced again. I threw the fermenter out with the brew. No samples taken.
As for my cleaning process i use the same process for 3 fermenters, only one is infected and i racked from the infected one to another for bottling and i used the same process to clean both afterward, the good one is not infected, i am brewing a cheap kit in it now to test it, the brew was in it for less than an hour so perhaps infection didn't take hold.
I agree it could be a harsh bleaching regime and i am reviewing my cleaning schedule (i have a mate who used the same bleach for years).
I will cut the bleach and probably Star San is the go.

Answer is "i don't know how it started" but it is not worth pursuing, i will change the way i do things and hope for the best.
Damage is 3 brews so a new fermenter is about that cost. Lessons learned as well so all is good.

Bought the material for the biab and organized to get it sewn up....

Update, ordered Starsan from Ross so let's hope that fixes all my woes.
 

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