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Help With Lcpa Style Recipe

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iralosavic

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I'm planning on putting down an APA - something similar to the Little Creatures one, but I don't have the time to use my AG rig and time is of the essence, as I need the brew drinkable by early April.

My LHBS is rather limited in what it sells (no AG stuff anyway) so here is what I have come up with from what is available:

1x Can Coopers Can (Euro Lager)

400g Dry Amber Extract

400g Dry Pale Extract

250g Dry Wheat Extract

5g Amarillo @ 5 Mins

5g Amarillo into the fermenter

15g Cascade into the fermenter

US05 yeast

I've chosen the Euro Lager because (I think) it isn't hopped to very high bitterness (please correct me if I'm wrong and if this only applies to the regular Lager). I am tempted to get the Coopers Pale Ale, but I thought my hop additions would make it too bitter as it's designed to be a relatively hopped/bitter base. (I've made this mistake before with late hopping Coopers K&K beers and ending up way too bitter).

Cheers

 

rharlow

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Hey mate,

Not sure if this is what your after but I just bought a Little Creatures Pale Ale pack from my LHBS, the ingrdients are:

Black Rock: Pilsener Blonde extract
Brew Booster 15 (according to the pack it contains dextrose, malt and corn syrup)
150g dried malt - wheat
15g cascade
15g willamette
safales us-05 yeast

not sure if that helps or if i just sound like a complete newbie (which i am)
 

iralosavic

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Thanks mate. That is helpful. No amber, which isn't a surprise for a pale. I'm not cloning though and not worried about colour, so I may keep some in there. Also Black Rock malt cans are superior to Coopers, so it will need some more body I think.

At least I got the euro lager (closest coopers have to pilsner) and extra wheat right! I thought it prob didn't have Amarillo, but I have heaps spare. Hmm choices
 

iralosavic

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Hey mate, forgot to ask; what are the hopping instructions in that kit? Cheers
 

glaab

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the euro lager has low IBU's , about 18. Real ale has about 30[in 23L]. I'd still want to add another 5-10 to that.
If you stick with the euro swill you'll need about 20IBU extra. Late hopping shouldn't add much bitterness, get some brewing software and work it out. You'll need to know the boil size/ gravity. If you want that APA style you gonna need more hops
, a bit of crystal malt wouldn't hurt either.
 

rharlow

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It says add the cascade and willamette infusion bags to a cup of boiling water and stand for 10 mins. After adding the brew blend and the wheat malt fill to the 10 litre mark then pour the cup of water including the infusion bags then fill to the 21 litre mark.

Whats the difference between adding them when the brew is filled halfway as opposed to when its full? The other couple of kits i've done have added the bag at the end. I was also going to ask I've been reading about boiling the wort, the recipe just says add hot water to the fermenter then add the can, is this enough or will boiling the can, malt etc together make a better beer?
 

pyrosx

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I'm planning on putting down an APA - something similar to the Little Creatures
According to a very highly rated recipe in the database, LCPA is hopped using chinook and cascade - so you're half right with the hops.

Second thing, and ymmv, but I never got a k&k beer get to much more than 4% ABV when using only a kilo of DME.... the body is nice, but the attenuation just isn't there using 1kg straight DME. For LCPA you're probably looking for 5.5ish.... so i'd be thinking about upping the DME, and/or adding some dex or whatever else to bump up the alcyhol content. (The best way to make a beer -not- taste like the one you're trying to emulate is to have it almost 30% less strong!)

Thirdly +1 for what glaab said - I don't think 18IBU's isn't enough, and adding late hops isn't really going to change that.

Last: i'd be wary about putting too much faith into what any LHBS "clone" recipe says... they usually have the best of intentions, and their kits will make okay beer - but their definition of "clone" is often pretty loose.
 

iralosavic

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According to a very highly rated recipe in the database, LCPA is hopped using chinook and cascade - so you're half right with the hops.

Second thing, and ymmv, but I never got a k&k beer get to much more than 4% ABV when using only a kilo of DME.... the body is nice, but the attenuation just isn't there using 1kg straight DME. For LCPA you're probably looking for 5.5ish.... so i'd be thinking about upping the DME, and/or adding some dex or whatever else to bump up the alcyhol content. (The best way to make a beer -not- taste like the one you're trying to emulate is to have it almost 30% less strong!)

Thirdly +1 for what glaab said - I don't think 18IBU's isn't enough, and adding late hops isn't really going to change that.

Last: i'd be wary about putting too much faith into what any LHBS "clone" recipe says... they usually have the best of intentions, and their kits will make okay beer - but their definition of "clone" is often pretty loose.

I guess I've kind of misadvertised, as I'm not bound to making a clone. I just thought it's a nice beer and I could base my recipe around it.

In terms of bitterness, I hear you regarding APA having 30+. I'm just a little nervious about hopping a hopped extract because I've overhopped the crap out of beers this way in the past with nothing longer than 15 minute additions. My concern is that a lager base will not have the body and depth of malt flavour to offset the true bitterness of a genuine APA, so I was going to aim for around 28IBU. Not being a clone, per se, it's not really that big of an issue so long as it is enjoyable to drink. I personally find LCPA overly bitter anyway... although this is not just for me, but for a mate.

I realise a kit beer isn't the best basis, hence why I posted up here - I really appreciate the constructive feedback.


I just plugged some data in to the kit beer designer and confirmed your findings re requiring at least 1500g added DME. And I thought LCPA was bittered with Chinook and late/dry hopped with cascade? In any case, I'm just about to check out the linked recipes and I'll report back with my take on a recipe working with what I have available.



Cheers guys
 

iralosavic

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At a guess, I'd say half way means it gets mixed through good and proper. Can't think of any other reason.​
It says add the cascade and willamette infusion bags to a cup of boiling water and stand for 10 mins. After adding the brew blend and the wheat malt fill to the 10 litre mark then pour the cup of water including the infusion bags then fill to the 21 litre mark.

Whats the difference between adding them when the brew is filled halfway as opposed to when its full? The other couple of kits i've done have added the bag at the end. I was also going to ask I've been reading about boiling the wort, the recipe just says add hot water to the fermenter then add the can, is this enough or will boiling the can, malt etc together make a better beer?
 

iralosavic

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For 23L I'm thinking;

1.5kg Morgans stockmans draught $18 ($5 more than coopers lager)
1kg DME light
250g Wheat extract (comes as 500g for $9)
250g dextrose
30g cascade $6.5
30g chinook $6.5

Man I wish I planned ahead better; I just received a craftbrewer order and can't justify the postage again. Hops at my LHBS are $3-4 per 15g bag arrgggh! That's $15 for 60g. It's tempting to cut back, but it'd be too malty.

I'm digging into my present DME reserves to cut back on costs. Yeah, $10 goes a long way when you're broke!

Any suggestions?
 

waggastew

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A suggestion assuming you ordered stuff for the recipe in your original post:

- Use whatever kit you have already bought OR buy a highly hopped kit (TC Sparkling/Morgans Stockmans Draught)
- Use 1.5kg of whatever dried malt you have, or the equivalent made up of DME and LME
- Go with the Cascade/Amarillo combo (its not LCPA but will have the right vibe)
- Ferment as close to 18degC as possible

Will turn out fine.
 

iralosavic

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A suggestion assuming you ordered stuff for the recipe in your original post:

- Use whatever kit you have already bought OR buy a highly hopped kit (TC Sparkling/Morgans Stockmans Draught)
- Use 1.5kg of whatever dried malt you have, or the equivalent made up of DME and LME
- Go with the Cascade/Amarillo combo (its not LCPA but will have the right vibe)
- Ferment as close to 18degC as possible

Will turn out fine.

Thanks for the suggestion. I haven't purchased anything regarding this recipe, but I have Saaz and Amarillo in stock, as well as some US05 and a bit over a kilo of light DME. I don't have any kits at home at the moment. What hopping combos could I do with B-Saaz and Amarillo to get something similar?
 

iralosavic

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The LBHS only had 25g avaiable of both Cascade and Chinook, so thats all I've got to work with - 15% less than anticipated. So here is my revised recipe:

23L

1.7kg Morgan's Stockman Draught
1kg LDME
250g Dry Wheat Extract
100g Dextrose

"Flameout" 2 minute steep: 16g Cascade, 9g Chinook
"Dry hop" day 3: 16g Chinook, 9g Cascade

I'll do a 10 minute boil of 5L or so to dilute and disperse the syrups and powders. In this boil I'll add 5g yeast nutrient, 3g Calcium Chloride and 6g Gypsum.


To scale back the recipe, I should technically be sticking to the original recipe with ~85% as much ME and WE at a 19L volume, however, I don't want to sacrifice volume, so I'm going to cut back on maltiness and some ABV% in leiu of lowered bitterness. I'm not all that concerned about a lower final IBU than a LCPA clone, so long as it's over 28 and the flavours of the hops are notable. I figured the gypsum may help bring the hops forwards somewhat.

Any comments/suggestions? Cheers
 

sgw86

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Hey mate,

Not sure if you have found it but there is a LCPA clone that was based on Boonies original recipe. This new clone was created by Waggastew. I am yet to try it, though I plan on putting it down this weekend.

Link is here: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...ittle+creatures



The LBHS only had 25g avaiable of both Cascade and Chinook, so thats all I've got to work with - 15% less than anticipated. So here is my revised recipe:

23L

1.7kg Morgan's Stockman Draught
1kg LDME
250g Dry Wheat Extract
100g Dextrose

"Flameout" 2 minute steep: 16g Cascade, 9g Chinook
"Dry hop" day 3: 16g Chinook, 9g Cascade

I'll do a 10 minute boil of 5L or so to dilute and disperse the syrups and powders. In this boil I'll add 5g yeast nutrient, 3g Calcium Chloride and 6g Gypsum.


To scale back the recipe, I should technically be sticking to the original recipe with ~85% as much ME and WE at a 19L volume, however, I don't want to sacrifice volume, so I'm going to cut back on maltiness and some ABV% in leiu of lowered bitterness. I'm not all that concerned about a lower final IBU than a LCPA clone, so long as it's over 28 and the flavours of the hops are notable. I figured the gypsum may help bring the hops forwards somewhat.

Any comments/suggestions? Cheers
 

waggastew

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23L

1.7kg Morgan's Stockman Draught
1kg LDME
250g Dry Wheat Extract
100g Dextrose

"Flameout" 2 minute steep: 16g Cascade, 9g Chinook
"Dry hop" day 3: 16g Chinook, 9g Cascade

I'll do a 10 minute boil of 5L or so to dilute and disperse the syrups and powders. In this boil I'll add 5g yeast nutrient, 3g Calcium Chloride and 6g Gypsum.
That looks fine mate. The quantities of hops will be more than enough to give it some character. To maximise the flavour I would think about removing the hops from the little mesh bags they come in. As long as you let the beer ferment for at least 2-3 weeks they should settle out fine.

In terms of the boil I would maybe do a smaller volume (2L) and only put in the wheat malt. Add the rest of the malts/dextrose to the fermenter before making upto volume.

Make sure you post back when you crack one to let us know how you went
 
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I'm putting down this LCPA "clone" tomorrow based on LHBS recipe. It doesnt have to match LCPA FYI.
TCS Pilsner
#15 brew booster (500 dex, 250 maltodex and 250 DME)
1 kg Extra light LME
12g Cascade and 12g Amarillo finishing hops (no chinook, I know I know, wanted to try amarillo for first time)
22L batch

Last batch used 2 teabags of cascade into a coopers draught came up very passionfruity, looking forwards to trying the amarillo to see what that adds.
 

iralosavic

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Brent: Amarillo is a decent substitute anyway. Recipe looks fine, although I tend to avoid the boosters if I can.

Wagastew: cheers for chiming in. I hit 1.048 OG, so not disappointed at all. The hops were just pellets in foil pouches, so I measure them out into steeping and dry hopping parts and chucked the steeping ones in the boil with the wheat after flameout then straight into the fermenter.

Will be chucking the rest in on Monday. Damn cascade and chinook smell good together! Cheers
 

iralosavic

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So I rehydrated the yeast with 110ml 39c water as per the PDF and pitched it. Today (day 3) I mixed in the rest of the hops and took a hydrometer reading. By the looks, it only just reached high krausen and read 1.036. I just wanted to taste a sample. Mmm quite delicious for a sweet wort. Will check again on the coming weekend.
 
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I'm putting down this LCPA "clone" tomorrow based on LHBS recipe. It doesnt have to match LCPA FYI.
TCS Pilsner
#15 brew booster (500 dex, 250 maltodex and 250 DME)
1 kg Extra light LME
12g Cascade and 12g Amarillo finishing hops (no chinook, I know I know, wanted to try amarillo for first time)
22L batch

Last batch used 2 teabags of cascade into a coopers draught came up very passionfruity, looking forwards to trying the amarillo to see what that adds.
Just a follow up, after 2 weeks in the bottle, lovely drop, needs a bit more time, but much more similar to Stone and Woods Pacific Ale than LCPA which is more full bodied and bitter. This has the passionfruit like the stone and wood brew, so if you like that, there's your K&K recipe!
OG was 1.055, FG was 1.014 with a 22L brew.
 

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