Help. Sodium Metasilicate in beer

[wide eyed and legless]

but it hasn't killed me yet.

Probably the most used phrase by someone about to die.

 

[MHB]

Actually, based mostly on aircraft voice recorders its "Oh ****"
Mark

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

They have things called 'masks' nowadays LC

Most masks are pretty useless against SO2 and the ones that work are a bear to use.

For the last few years I've been in positions where the main contact with actual cellar work was doing a twice daily tour to check how my workorders were going.

Now that I'm working "hands on" again I might have to do something about it.

 

[manticle]

Yeah I was thinking of the ones that work (eg sundstrom half mask) and yes they are pretty uncomfortable but surely less than nearly passing out or struggling to breathe.

 

[Bribie G]

Post number 85

 

[bradsbrew]

Most masks are pretty useless against SO2 and the ones that work are a bear to use.

For the last few years I've been in positions where the main contact with actual cellar work was doing a twice daily tour to check how my workorders were going.

Now that I'm working "hands on" again I might have to do something about it.

Even a P2?

 

[technobabble66]

OK, let's take a solution of sodium metasilicate and add it to an ordinary fat, (glycerol triacylate). The acyl groups can be anything you want but let's make them stearate.

Since this is a chemistry lesson we'll take a low concentration of metasilicate solution, say 1%, which will have a pH of about 12.6. This is equivalent to hydroxyl ion concentration of ~40 mM. The concentration of sodium ions will also be around 40 mM (assuming 50% dissociation).

Let's just consider one of the ester bridges for now, since they are all similar they'll all react the same way.

At a pH of 12.6 the hydroxyl ions will attack the carbonyl group of the ester, producing an orthoester, which is unstable so it will spontaneously break down to an alkoxide and the carboxylic acid (stearic acid).

The stearic acid will donate a proton to the alkoxide, giving a stearate ion and an alcohol (when this happens to all three ester bridges the remnant alcohol is glycerol but we aren't much interested in byproducts at this stage).

Sodium ion + stearate ion = sodium stearate.

Sodium stearate is a soap.

Factually correct. (Just like post 85, thanks BribieG [emoji57]). So that probably ends the Soap Debate.
However, the OP was using this in wort, so I'm assuming the solution/environment would've been acidic (the alkalinity of the SodMetasil would be overwhelmed by the acidity of the wort, I'm assuming). So would this substantially change the chemistry at play?
A quick bit of googling/Wikipediaing suggests SodMetasil reacts differently in acidic conditions to produce Siliclic acid. Happy to be corrected on this of course. From there it seems to get a lot murkier, but there's an indication that Silicilic acid tends to go through condensation reactions to form silica gels. All of that seems to push towards the direction of silicon dioxide, but I might be grossly oversimplifying things.

I'll just add Silicilic acid has been suggested for health-promoting benefits (may or may not mean much, though [emoji1]) such as treatment of Alzheimer's. Whereas silica gels may have an irritative effect on the respiratory or digestive systems, but is also apparently used in brewing for certain applications ("brewery of grains for beer to improve taste, clearness, color and foam, removal of non-micro-organism impurities").

Can't offer anything solid other than throwing that loose info into the speculative confusion [emoji41], but I'd err towards thinking it'll be safe and fine.
*However*, the quality might be affected a little.
Also your mash efficiency might've been a little crap as your mash wouldn't have gotten acidic enough for ideal mash conditions, and your alkaline sparge may have extracted more tannins than ideal. The latter may actually end up being a bigger issue, depending on the beer/recipe in question and the sensitivity of your tastebuds.

 

[good4whatAlesU]

Masks are handy.

My lungs aren't the best after many years crushing soil for labs.

They have lovely extraction fans now which weren't so readily used 'back in the day'.

 

[GalBrew]

Even a P2?

I thought P2s were for particulates only not gases.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

As per my comment in post #30 back on page 2, I think that adding metasilicate in small quantities to a mash will result in it precipitating out as the calcium salt.

The point I was trying to make with the soap making comment was that the hazards of metasilicate exist because it is reactive, like many other alkalis. The "caustic" in the name caustic soda comes from the Greek for to burn.

 

[bradsbrew]

I thought P2s were for particulates only not gases.

Sorry wasn't paying attention. I was refering to the powder.

 

[Zorco]

The "caustic" in the name caustic soda comes from the Greek for to burn.

And interestingly the "Lyre" in the name Lyrebird_Cycles comes from Antonymian people for 'to say the truth'.

 

[Zorco]

Post #93

 

[MHB]

Antonymian? is that even a real word
Mark

 

[bradsbrew]

Is now.

 

[Zorco]

It's a particularly cromulent word.

 

[Zorco]

To undress the fine woman a-fresh, the Antonymian people live on the vast land of Antonym. Horrid wenches are what you're wanting