Help. Sodium Metasilicate in beer

[Droopy Brew]

Thanks Mark, confirmed my thoughts and eased my fears.

Yeast is happily chewing sugars now with pressure gauge on the kegmenter going from 0 to 4 PSI in the past 2 hours so no apparent yeast issues either.

 

[niftinev]

Based on what evidence? I should discount the scientific papers Zorco presented because life is short? Nah think I'll side with the science.

and ignore the msds

see post #15

 

[mtb]

and ignore the msds

see post #15

I think you need to take that paper with a grain of brewing salt*. OP may well have used it in dilution which would completely change its characteristics.

*I couldn't help myself

 

[Mardoo]

Dunno about that. Sodium Metasilicate in the lungs and eyes is pretty effin' bitey.

 

[Droopy Brew]

Niftinev, check out the MSDS on chlorine and flouride.

Best you not drink from any town water supplies.

 

[Mardoo]

As you've been arguing, there's a big difference between direct contact and dilute contact. MSDS's deal with direct contact, not dilute.

 

[Droopy Brew]

Yep. Precisely my point. :beer:

 

[MHB]

Concentration is important, for instance Calcium Chloride has a very similar LD 50 of about 1g/kg Common salt about 3g/kg and Magnesium Sulphate is much more dangerous at around 0.2g/kg.
I'm not recommending you put it in your beer, but the amount we are talking about isn't going to be an issue. Cant say what it will do for the flavour, but I don't think there are any real health concerns.
Mark

If you aren't familiar with LD 50, its basically that amount required to have a 50/50 chance of killing you. So if you weighed 80kg, and we were talking about MgSO4
0.2*80=16g has a coin toss chance of punching your clock.
M

 

[Yob]

so I once put a few spoons of PBW in my mash...

not drawing the line at all except for I labelled my containers after that episode..

and yes, I dumped the mash...

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

To back up what MHB has said, I don't see anything to worry about.

Metasilicate by itself can have deleterious effects because it's quite reactive: it's used in washing poswders for instance because it will react with fats and modify them to soap.*

In your case I believe that it will have combined with the calcium ions present in the mash. Calcium metasilicate is pretty close to insoluble so it will then have fallen out of solution with the phosphates.


* Weird use for silicates: a fresh egg immersed in a silicate solution will keep for months at room temperature.

 

[MHB]

Water glass, that's what its called for egg dipping.
We used to mix it with sand to make foundry moulds, mix like dry sandy mortar, than blow CO2 over it and in 5 minutes its a fair imitation of sandstone, just like in egg preserving, seals the egg, reacts with CO2 forms a "glass" keeping out air and bacteria.
M

 

[niftinev]

Niftinev, check out the MSDS on chlorine and flouride.

Best you not drink from any town water supplies.

its your call what you do

i would dump based on the fact that there is no information on possible long term heath effects

 

[Zorco]

Lots of people would. And that is ok.

But ignorance prompts two responses: fear, curiosity.

The latter is on show today....

And thank goodness for that.

 

[MHB]

I would be a lot more concerned about exposure to Ethanol, a widely used steriliser and neurotoxin with plenty of well identified both short and long term harmful effects.
Including, apparently a tendency to crap on about things you clearly don't understand.
Mark

 

[Zorco]

Huh... are you still cranky with me Mark?


[emoji317]

 

[manticle]

I believe it was directed elsewhere zorco

 

[MHB]

Zorco - Yep you posted while I was typing, getting coffee, letting the dog out and the cat back in.... I'm sure they both think my main job is opening doors.
Mark

 

[good4whatAlesU]

I'd go with the chemists recommendations. Pretty low concentrations.

Google search says the isotope labelled product has been fed to dogs (poor bloody dogs) to see where it goes: http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/chemical/pim500.htm But you'd have to track down the original paper to read methods (Clayton and Clayton 1993), almost certainly it was well above the concentrations you're talking about.

Excerpt:

6.1 Absorption by route of exposure

Radio-labelled 31Si sodium metasilicate, partially
neutralized, was given orally to dogs. It was rapidly
absorbed and excreted in the urine but a significant amount
was retained in the tissues (Clayton & Clayton, 1993).

6.2 Distribution by route of exposure

Radio-labeled 31Si sodium metasilicate, partially
neutralized, was given orally to dogs. It was rapidly
absorbed. A significant amount was retained in the tissues.
These findings are consistent with the recognition that
silicon is an essential trace element for bone formation in
animals (Clayton & Clayton, 1993).

6.3 Biological half-life by route of exposure

No data available

6.4 Metabolism

No data available

6.5 Elimination by route of exposure

Radio-labelled 31Si sodium metasilicate, partially
neutralized, was given orally to dogs. It was rapidly
excreted in the urine (Clayton & Clayton, 1993).

 

[Zorco]

True,

But then there is that line..


"Did you do something because someone on the internet said it was OK???...... you absolute dickhead"

 

[mtb]

There's "someone on the internet" and then there's you intelligent fuckers, I think I'd feel safe following this advice