Hello + Grainfather or Braumeister?

[Bribie G]

3v?
Last time I was at a brew day with a 3v system the brewer was busier than a one armed painter with the crabs.

 

[SBOB]

3v?
Last time I was at a brew day with a 3v system the brewer was busier than a one armed painter with the crabs.

This guy?

 

[welly2]

As someone who owns a Grainfather, if I had the money, I'd get a Braumeister, if I had the time and a bit of nouse, I'd make my own Grainfather although the new controller would be a bit more tricky. As I had neither, I got a Grainfather.

 

[TidalPete]

3v?
Last time I was at a brew day with a 3v system the brewer was busier than a one armed painter with the crabs.

So there's no doubt about it then?

You really can't teach an old dog new tricks?



And to stay on-topic you REALLY DO get what you pay for! There's no doubt in the world about that!

Go the 50-litre - (If you can't manage a 4-vessel HERMS that is) Braumeister. :beerbang:

Now why do I get the feeling I'm going to regret posting this Bribie? :lol:

 

[Markbeer]

Yes 3v brewing.

Its a volume thing.

 

[peteru]

I'm not sure what people mean when they talk about "quality".

Quality of the materials is only a small part of it. There are issues with both design and poor assembly / QA on the Grainfather.

Things like the new Connect controller not properly fitting in the metal bracket or the inability to securely attach the controller to the main unit. This is a problem, since you need to tip the Grainfather to pour out any liquid that the pump can't get out. When you do that, the new controller just falls out.

The cold water hose to the chiller has no clamp on the barbed connector that attaches to the water source and it just flies off as soon as there's even a small amount of pressure present.

The chiller hoses are not cut square and poorly attached to the compression fittings. This resulted in the hoses coming off the chiller even before it was used for the first time.

And there's more. None of those are things that can't be fixed, but it does require that you either modify or at least inspect and adjust every part of the system. I would not expect to have to do that on a $1300 product. It should be fully usable out of the box.

 

[welly2]

Quality of the materials is only a small part of it. There are issues with both design and poor assembly / QA on the Grainfather.

Things like the new Connect controller not properly fitting in the metal bracket or the inability to securely attach the controller to the main unit. This is a problem, since you need to tip the Grainfather to pour out any liquid that the pump can't get out. When you do that, the new controller just falls out.

The cold water hose to the chiller has no clamp on the barbed connector that attaches to the water source and it just flies off as soon as there's even a small amount of pressure present.

The chiller hoses are not cut square and poorly attached to the compression fittings. This resulted in the hoses coming off the chiller even before it was used for the first time.

And there's more. None of those are things that can't be fixed, but it does require that you either modify or at least inspect and adjust every part of the system. I would not expect to have to do that on a $1300 product. It should be fully usable out of the box.

You made these comments before about the Grainfather yet no one else seems to have experienced them. Or at least no one else here (that I've read) or on any of the Grainfather facebook groups. I suspect you've just been unlucky with yours, which can and does happen with any system you buy off the shelf. In my experience, the quality and quality assurance has been superb. As regards the controller not staying in place when you turn it upsidedown to empty it, it was clear when I set it up initially that that would happen, that it wasn't bolted down tightly, and so when I turn the thing upsidedown to empty it, I take that into consideration. On the other hand, it makes it a darn sight easier to clean the whole unit if I'm able to easily pull the thing apart.

 

[Jamdee]

Thanks for all the replies! It's more about the automation for me. I'd love to have a system that I can leave in between steps? I'm pretty sure you can do this with the BM but can you with GF with new controller? I'm warming to the GF because I would think my LHBS will look after me should anything go wrong?

 

[peteru]

Not quite sure what kind of automation you expect. If your questions is along the lines of can the GF with Connect controller perform step mash by changing the temperature and holding it for a period of time?, then the answer is yes. You can program in a step mash and leave the system to it if you have the connect controller. With the old controller, you would have to push buttons at the right time to change the temp.

It won't add the hops to the boil for you, but I don't think the BM would do that either.

 

[Blind Dog]

If you want automation, you need to look at the new products like Brewie that really are set and forget. A member here has one on order (chrisluski ? - he has a blog, the beer healer), but don't know if its landed yet.

If you just want a simpler it not automated brewing day but still want to go AG, your obvious options in Aus are BIAB in an urn (simple, works, but likely to need manual inputs to step mash), robobrew, GF and BM. The last three are all similar and having seen all 3 and used 2, I'd say comparing a GF to a Great Wall car is more than a little unfair, more a Toyota or Hyundai - reliable and gets the job done well but without the 'feel' of the much more expensive brands. visually, the robobrew seems to be the flimsyist and cheapest of the 3, but I've not used one so can't really comment on how it performs. The BM is the pick if you have the cash and want to spend it; it uses better quality components than the GF, but you have to pay for them.

I scrimped and saved for my 20L BM (I wanted the 50L and would still recommend it as the best option if you can afford it plus the cost if a 15amp circuit; I couldn't) 3 years ago. It's way past 200 brews, hasn't missed a beat and still shiny.

Even though I would always recommend a BM over a GF, I've seen very few negative comments from GF owners, it's a very good bit of kit and, if you're choosing between the 2, you need to weigh up which better meets your requirements and budget.

 

[Coodgee]

Quality of the materials is only a small part of it. There are issues with both design and poor assembly / QA on the Grainfather.

Things like the new Connect controller not properly fitting in the metal bracket or the inability to securely attach the controller to the main unit. This is a problem, since you need to tip the Grainfather to pour out any liquid that the pump can't get out. When you do that, the new controller just falls out.

The cold water hose to the chiller has no clamp on the barbed connector that attaches to the water source and it just flies off as soon as there's even a small amount of pressure present.

The chiller hoses are not cut square and poorly attached to the compression fittings. This resulted in the hoses coming off the chiller even before it was used for the first time.

And there's more. None of those are things that can't be fixed, but it does require that you either modify or at least inspect and adjust every part of the system. I would not expect to have to do that on a $1300 product. It should be fully usable out of the box.

A couple of fair points there. I had to put a zip tie on the cold water hose of the chiller to stop it flying off under pressure. My chiller even leaks a little bit of cold water. So yes the chiller could be better quality, I stand corrected. I don't see the problem with the new controller not fitting snug though. It seems good enough to me.

To me the grainfather is a bit like a cooking utensil. You cook beer with it, it gets dirty and you clean it when you're done. I brew outside so I don't mind if water leaks etc. I see a lot of guys on the net with their grainfather in the kitchen, I suppose for those guys it would be more important to have something that behaves more like a high end coffee machine than a stock pot.
loud.

 

[sandgroper]

I have a gf it is a easy brew day bm exposed elements on bottom gf under the bottom better for stirring the bottom.
Gf recirculation top down bm opposite rec flows up
Gf easier to lift grain out and sparge
Lot of issues with bm stock outlet.
Bm expensive
You can get the grain brother and father cheaper than bm
I would buy a nother gf but probably go bigger 3v I'm in still learning
Easy clean up
Check out this fella he has bought like 4 bm all with issues and sells or returns them but then gets a nother bm don't understand that.hes the reason I didn't go bm. Plus I saw a few bm for sale when I was getting gear together they are expensive even second hand.


You tube homebeerbrewery

My gf has fast temp ramp.
Don't have the new controller will wait for improvements
Step mash still do but need to close buy
Greg

 

[Matplat]

I was going to post a link to that time4another1 review on youtube as well.

I was surprised at the difference in mash efficiency, I expected the BM to be superior.

Can any BM owners see if something was done wrong in that review to explain the poor mash efficiency?

 

[jyo]

I'm 4 brews into my Grainfather after 100 + or so on 3 V. I'm still impressed by it. I've had no issues with it yet, I had to clamp the cold inlet on the chiller, but that is a no brainer. I am still sussing out the sparge, for instance, my first brew I had **** efficiency of 65, the second I sorted my sparge and hit 84 percent. A recent hefe I was back down to 65, but I'll sort it. People have mentioned the new controller falling out when you tip it over to clean. I just hold my thumb on the controller as I tip, sorted. A cable tie will also sort this problem. The boil could be a little harder, but floating a SS bowl on top gets it hammering away. I am so far really happy.

 

[HBHB]

Over 2 years since pre-public release on our first Grainfather unit & 300+ brews down (stopped counting now) on the enduro test to see when the GF is going to give up the ghost. Think i might need to throw it out of a plane at 10,000 ft to really kill it.

Is it perfect? No. I still have to plug it in.

Is it damned good value for money? Yep

Does it work well? Yep

2c

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I am about to give the green light to the purchase of a Guten 50 litre programmable mash tun due out in March for under $600 if there is any delay I will go for the 40 litre for $515. I would imagine it would pay for itself if I gave it a favourable review against the Braumeister.

 

[peteru]

I've been getting mash efficiencies in the 75-95% range with the GF. The 95% figures were with very long mashes (3+ hours) and stuck sparges that needed agitation. I'm still trying to get the mill to do a good crush. I opted for the cheapest mill I could find and am not impressed. It required a few mods to get it to work and I suspect I'll have to go through a few more brews before I either get it to work well enough or decide to replace it with a proper geared fluted mill.

I don't think that the Grainfather is a bad piece of equipment. I'm happy to have it. However, it's not without faults. If you are going into the trouble of researching the product before purchasing, you deserve to know the potential weaknesses as well as strengths. I'm sure that if I didn't buy the Grainfather and bought a Robobrew instead, I would be here telling you about the bad and good aspects. I'm sure that the BM also has some issues. Given the range of price points, things that would be seen as faults in the more expensive products may be totally acceptable in the cheap product.

 

[razz]

I was going to post a link to that time4another1 review on youtube as well.

I was surprised at the difference in mash efficiency, I expected the BM to be superior.

Can any BM owners see if something was done wrong in that review to explain the poor mash efficiency?

Hi Matplat. I was thinking the same thing whilst watching the video. I missed what the SG was each of each brew into the fermentor. I assumed the the BM caught up, obviously not? I'll watch the video again. One thing that came to mind was the flow through each pump, the grandfather possible got a higher gravity reading due to recirculating more liquor. I think this maybe evident by the darker brew out of the grainfather. Also the obvious difference in both units is flow through the grain bed, top to bottom versus bottom to top. Food for thought.
Edit, I don't think he did anything wrong.

 

[Matplat]

I don't remember the figures exactly, but i think there may have been about 8 points difference between the two, which, in an average gravity ale, is a shitload.

On top of that the wort clarity from the BM was crap, because it never forms a filtering grain bed, due to the upflow design.

In a side by side comparison such as this, I fail to see where the extra dollars go in the BM?

 

[Crusty]

I don't remember the figures exactly, but i think there may have been about 8 points difference between the two, which, in an average gravity ale, is a shitload.

On top of that the wort clarity from the BM was crap, because it never forms a filtering grain bed, due to the upflow design.

In a side by side comparison such as this, I fail to see where the extra dollars go in the BM?

There's quite a few questionable figures in that review & don't take everything you see as gospel.
You won't see a commercial sized Grainfather any time soon but there's shitloads of Micro's opening up using Braumeisters & for very good reason.
As far as wort clarity goes, I get crystal clear wort into my fermenter. We're swapping our 200L BM for a 500L in the next few months & I'll be brewing on that sucker full time this year.