Hello + Grainfather or Braumeister?

[Coalminer]

There's quite a few questionable figures in that review & don't take everything you see as gospel.
You won't see a commercial sized Grainfather any time soon but there's shitloads of Micro's opening up using Braumeisters & for very good reason.
As far as wort clarity goes, I get crystal clear wort into my fermenter. We're swapping our 200L BM for a 500L in the next few months & I'll be brewing on that sucker full time this year.

And I'm sure you won't have to hold it together with cable ties

Dedicated Braumeister Guide, Problems & Solution Thread.......12 pages

Dedicated Grainfather Guide, Problems & Solution Thread........79 pages

 

[HBHB]

And I'm sure you won't have to hold it together with cable ties

Dedicated Braumeister Guide, Problems & Solution Thread.......12 pages

Dedicated Grainfather Guide, Problems & Solution Thread........79 pages

Not knocking the Braumeister in any way form or fashion, nor am I pumping air into the GF but how does this reflect anything? There's thousands of GF units in Australia these days and something like 15,000 units world wide in use.

No idea how many BM's there are. No way to draw any conclusion from pages of repeat questions and content poor banter.

 

[SBOB]

Not knocking the Braumeister in any way form or fashion, nor am I pumping air into the GF but how does this reflect anything? There's thousands of GF units in Australia these days and something like 15,000 units world wide in use.

No idea how many BM's there are. No way to draw any conclusion from pages of repeat questions and content poor banter.

or that $45k 500L braumeister wont need cable ties (probably as it doesnt come with a chiller ) compared to a grainfather which does

 

[Batz]

If you where to win a competition and the prize was either a Braumeister, Grainfather or Robobrew, and it was up to you to pick, I bet I know which one you would choose.

It's all about price, and as TidalPete said earlier in the thread.."you get what you pay for"

I own a BM, I have seen several brews done on a Grainfather. Both brew good beer, with the BM you don't have to swap hoses and things about but it's twice the price.

 

[Gosling]

How important is pre-boil wort clarity to you ?

The one major difference between the GF and BM is the direction of flow during the mash recirculation stage. The BM is bottom up while the GF is top down flow direction.

With the BM, the natural filtration provided the malt bed clarifies the wort very nicely and is crystal clear when the mash is finished. Until you remove the malt pipe, which causes all the captures fine particles which have accumulated at the bottom of the malt pipe to fall back into the wort which undoes alot of the good work that the grain bed has done in filtration.

The merits of boiling clear wort vs cloudy are debatable but I am not getting into that here.

I can speak for the BM because I own one and nothing disappoints me more that seeing my wort turn to mud after I pull out that malt pipe. I cannot speak for the GF because I've not one but It seems that once the grain is removed that the fines that have accumulated atop the grain bed would be removed with the malt bed.

As the Batz Authority points out, both systems brew good beer (he means make good wort I think ) but I am just pointing out what I think is one advantage of the GF design.

 

[EalingDrop]

Which model BM?
The 2017 model has an integrated cooling jacket and bottom drain added.
Cleaning time will also form part of that consideration.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

How important is pre-boil wort clarity to you ?

With the BM, the natural filtration provided the malt bed clarifies the wort very nicely and is crystal clear when the mash is finished. Until you remove the malt pipe, which causes all the captures fine particles which have accumulated at the bottom of the malt pipe to fall back into the wort which undoes alot of the good work that the grain bed has done in filtration.

I believe that the Grainfather has a silicone seal around the edge of the bottom filters, probably because one of its problems is the pump blockages, where as that doesn't happen on the BM unless some grain has been carelessly dropped down the side. If you are worried about the clarity of the wort pre boil you could fit a silicone pressure cooker gasket around the outer edge of the perforated plate and mesh making it the same as the Grainfather and giving a good seal between the outer edge of the filter and the malt pipe. You can buy the silicone seals for a 2 or 3 dollars off eBay.
Don't do it around the top plate and mesh because that has to lift and fall with the pump / pump break.

 

[Batz]

As the Batz Authority points out, both systems brew good beer (he means make good wort I think )

Thank you Squire.

Yes I did mean wort.

Finished beer is my ultimate aim though. I don't find any of my beers lack clarity.

Post boil clarity is more more important than pre-boil wort clarity to me.

 

[Gosling]

I believe that the Grainfather has a silicone seal around the edge of the bottom filters, probably because one of its problems is the pump blockages, where as that doesn't happen on the BM unless some grain has been carelessly dropped down the side. If you are worried about the clarity of the wort pre boil you could fit a silicone pressure cooker gasket around the outer edge of the perforated plate and mesh making it the same as the Grainfather and giving a good seal between the outer edge of the filter and the malt pipe. You can buy the silicone seals for a 2 or 3 dollars off eBay.
Don't do it around the top plate and mesh because that has to lift and fall with the pump / pump break.

I don't think so wealy.

Your theory implies that the fines are collected only at the perimeter of the BM and released from the outer edge of the perforated plate when the malt pipe is lifted. Instead they would be collected over the full surface area of the lower end of the malt pipe. They become dislodged when the malt pipe is lifted and liquid drains back down the bed. I doubt that a silicone gasket would achieve much in this regard.

 

[SBOB]

If you where to win a competition and the prize was either a Braumeister, Grainfather or Robobrew, and it was up to you to pick, I bet I know which one you would choose.

What if the competition prize was a Braumeister, a Grainfather and $1200, or a Robobrew and $2000

 

[Gosling]

I'd take the BM because I would'nt know what to do with the extra cash . It would only confuse me.

 

[wobbly]

On the issue of wort clarity can anyone advise what the difference in mesh size/opening between the original cloth screens and the current Stainless Steel screens

From what I saw in the early days the original cloth screen "appeared" to have a lot smaller mesh than the current SS screens and this may be contributing to the current perceived issue of wort clarity when the malt pipe is pulled

Maybe MHB if he is monitoring this topic can comment

Wobbly

 

[sandgroper]

Hello everybody, not sure where to post this so hopefully it's ok here? I'm a partial & extract brewer thinking about jumping to AG.
I like the looks of both the GF & the BM, but quality & money aside, I'm not sure which one to go for? I would like things to be as automated as possible, I have young kids so a little time poor. What's the difference between the controllers, do they do the same things? Thank you

As you can see jamdee the answer isn't so simple.

 

[Gosling]

Wobbles,

The perforations and mesh (referring to the lower plate and mesh) only serve to retain the grains and husks, ie chunky bits in place throughout the mash and when the malt pipe is removed.

What I am talking about is the fines, ie smaller particles, flour or dust that is filtered out gradually and accumulated by the grain bed as wort is circulated through it.

The upflow from the pumps would cause those fines to accumulate theoretically at the base of the malt pipe which then become dislodged again when it is removed. A finer mesh is not going to prevent the fines from falling back in, just maybe less "chunky bits".

 

[sandgroper]

What if the competition prize was a Braumeister, a Grainfather and $1200, or a Robobrew and $2000

Yes but what about if the prize was robobrew and a night with ell McPherson or you could have the bm or gf for 100
I would be gf but with ell in the mix robobrew hands down.bugger the brewing go the bragging rights.

 

[EalingDrop]

It never ends even if you have the BM.
There's always bits and bobs you can modify to suit your requirements. I hated the mesh on the BM, and replaced it with the perforated plate from BAC brewing, I'm now trying to justify why I SHOULD get the the WI-FI upgrade.

 

[sandgroper]

I agree with what go sling is saying

 

[wobbly]

Wobbles,

The perforations and mesh (referring to the lower plate and mesh) only serve to retain the grains and husks, ie chunky bits in place throughout the mash and when the malt pipe is removed.

What I am talking about is the fines, ie smaller particles, flour or dust that is filtered out gradually and accumulated by the grain bed as wort is circulated through it.

The upflow from the pumps would cause those fines to accumulate theoretically at the base of the malt pipe which then become dislodged again when it is removed. A finer mesh is not going to prevent the fines from falling back in, just maybe less "chunky bits".

I would still like to know the answer to my question

The current screen are about 1.5 to 2 mm cross section and agree all they will do is stop the "big bits" and I sure that the original cloth screen openings were significantly less in open area therefore would have by default limited a lot less trub/fines settle out in the wort

Take the various discussions on hop screens that are reportedly 300 mesh and how they allegedly easily "block" inferring that the finer the mesh the less particles that will pass through it.

Wobbly

 

[peteru]

I'm now trying to justify why I SHOULD get the the WI-FI upgrade.

That's easy. WiFi is a much better option than Bluetooth.

This is definitely one thing that Grainfather got wrong with the Connect controller. They picked Bluetooth over WiFi and then they picked BLE, which most older or cheaper devices are not compatible with. That means you can not just connect to your home network and you can't use an older/cheap tablet as a dedicated brewing "console". But, it is what it is. SmartPID looks like a worthwhile upgrade down the track.

As to the usefulness of a wireless controller... It depends on the features and APIs. I'd love to have the ability to collect data and be able to graph it and annotate it. Some people like the idea of downloading the recipe from the cloud. I think from my point of view a bi-directional approach might work best. Download the recipe, allow the user the change things on the fly and add additional annotations, keep a track of collected data and allow such brew sessions to be cloned, modified and then uploaded again as a template for the next session. If you are looking for repeatability of something that worked out really well, this would be a great start. Especially if you were diligent about annotating the process as you go.

I wanted to hack on something like that and make it work for the Grainfather Connect controller. I contacted Grainfather about an API or protocol information for the controller so that I could do this, but they replied that the API and protocol are proprietary and they won't be sharing it. Their loss. I can't see how a third party adding value to their hardware would be a bad thing. If they are worried about someone cloning the product, they can stop right now. Any Chinese manufacturer can clone it in a few days if they decide to do that.

 

[Jamdee]

Wow this grew legs! Thanks for all your input guys, I'm leaning toward the BM for the build quality, although the GF does have alot of users locally, so support is excellent....... Hmmmmm????