Hefe Advice And Decoction Mashing

[manticle]

Little update - the brew has been fermenting in a laundry sink water bath at around 17.

It's now sitting at 1010 and tastes exactly how I'd hoped - hints of clove and banana, slightly tart and dry. I'm well pleased and assuming nothing goes wrong, I reckon it will be a good first attempt. Hoping to do a dunkelweizen using the top cropped yeast (very healthy looking krausen from this yeast) once this is bottled.

One question - I have read that hefes are often highly carbonated (as much as 4 vol). I'm a lower carb type man and I don't immediately think of beers like schofferhoffer as being highly fizzy. What is the experience of other people (both drinking and brewing) in this regard?

 

[pdilley]

I did a high carb route once. Don't recommend it, low carb is my preferences and how I do all my beers.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[manticle]

Cheers. I normally carb to about 2.4 max so I might look at between 2.5 and 3.

4 is just a bit out of my world.

 

[Fourstar]

Cheers. I normally carb to about 2.4 max so I might look at between 2.5 and 3.

4 is just a bit out of my world.

I'd shoot for 2.8 if you can, you will have some visible spritz for a few mintues after you pour and you can also pour it easily enough without pouring nothing but head.

 

[dr K]

A late reply, but none the les: (ha ha)
If you put decoction in an historical context then you will understand that long b4 messrs Farhenheit and Celcius came up with a way of accurate and therefore repeatable temperature measurement we had the rule of thumb and decoction. You warm some water up till its just right, mix in the grain (at about 2:1) and after a bit take out about a third of the wet grain, leaving the enzyme rich liquid behind in a now thinner mash, you boil the thick porridge, and I mean boil, and not just for a few minutes, think of making polenta and you are on the way. You mix this back in, pull out another third and repeat, guess what, you have just done a stepped mash without a thermometer but hit most of the temps you need, you have also gelatinised the undermodfied malts you would have been using a few hundred years ago and made the whole process a lot more efficient, you have also burnt yourself from the hot mud like popping decoction.
So what happens to the tannins, well they stay in the husks (sort of but that will do), you get tannins when you oversparge, just from the volume of water, and generally speaking even high levels of tannins are not overly detectable (cf a long brewed cup of tea), the general problems with polyphenols in beer is the lack of colloidal stability rather than a noticeable astringent taste. You do not get tannins when you decoct because the liquor to grain ratio is so low, now do not for a minute think that Im going to get dragged into the BIAB deadbeat over this.

K

 

[manticle]

Ended up boiling and stirring for a good 30+ minutes. Just did the single decoction but wacked in a protein rest after taking out the mash by just adding hot water.

Process was ferulic acid: 20 mins
Remove mash, bring to 64, hold for 20 mins
Meanwhile bring main mash to 55 for protein rest (was advised this was unnecessary but I'm only ever going to figure that out by trying and comparing).
Boil and stir decoction for 30 mins
Add decoction to main mash.
Adjust temp to 64 with hot/cold water.

I didn't recirculate (lack of time - had to be somewhere).
Batch sparged
Missed OG by around 5 points so added a touch of dissolved, cooled DME

 

[hefevice]

Little update - the brew has been fermenting in a laundry sink water bath at around 17.

It's now sitting at 1010 and tastes exactly how I'd hoped - hints of clove and banana, slightly tart and dry. I'm well pleased and assuming nothing goes wrong, I reckon it will be a good first attempt. Hoping to do a dunkelweizen using the top cropped yeast (very healthy looking krausen from this yeast) once this is bottled.

One question - I have read that hefes are often highly carbonated (as much as 4 vol). I'm a lower carb type man and I don't immediately think of beers like schofferhoffer as being highly fizzy. What is the experience of other people (both drinking and brewing) in this regard?

Wow, 1.010. Was that down from the original 1.055 planned (you indicated you missed your OG, but not sure how much you compensated)? If so, that's bloody good attenuation for a hefe.

I typically aim for 3 volumes. Personally I like higher levels of carbonation in Hefe's (although not as high as 4). Weihenstephan is my ideal.

 

[manticle]

From memory OG was closer to 1045. Malt probably upped it to around 1050 but since it was added the following day after pitching the yeast, it's hard to tell exactly. I was also a bit rough with my DME addition. Maybe 300-400g? 3068 seems a feisty little yeast.

 

[manticle]

Last question (I think). She's been on 1010 for over 3 days now. Normally at this point I'd leave another 3- 5 days to let the yeast clean up then bung it in the fridge for 3-7 days cold conditioning, fine then bottle.

As hefe is meant to be drunk fresh will I lose anything from this process? Should I cold condition now or wait as per normal? Carbon dioxide is still coming out of solution (and still a fair wack of krausen) - normally when I cc the beer has gone back to flat.

Cheers.

 

[AndrewQLD]

Hey Guys anybody ever done a Hefe useing a Herms set up and how did it turn out?.
Cheers Altstart

I do them all the time Altstart and they turn out great, it's easy doing the step mashes in the HERMS, I did one on the brew day you came for.

I have dropped the ferulic acid rest and opted for a 15 minute protein rest instead, I was getting WAYYYY to much clove doing the ferulic rest to the point of it being undrinkable. Since I've gone to a 55, 62, 72 and 78 mash regime my Heffes are great.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[newguy]

Last question (I think). She's been on 1010 for over 3 days now. Normally at this point I'd leave another 3- 5 days to let the yeast clean up then bung it in the fridge for 3-7 days cold conditioning, fine then bottle.

As hefe is meant to be drunk fresh will I lose anything from this process? Should I cold condition now or wait as per normal? Carbon dioxide is still coming out of solution (and still a fair wack of krausen) - normally when I cc the beer has gone back to flat.

I don't keg any of my brews, weizens included, until the foam on the surface subsides. Once the surface is more-or-less foam free I know the yeast has done all it can and it's safe to keg. It sounds like you have a day or three to go.

Once your beer gets to that point, just bottle immediately. You won't be gaining anything by cold conditioning, other than dropping out the yeast. If you're after a crystal weizen that's fine but I like them mit hefe and I try to get as much yeast into the keg as possible. It just doesn't taste the same once the beer starts running clear from the keg.

How does it taste?

 

[manticle]

I'm impressed with the taste. Hints of banana and clove with neither being overpowering. That's why I'm loath to go my usual 'clean up' process as I know what I'd normally be trying to clean/flocc out is what's responsible for the goodness. I might leave it till Sunday or Monday then bottle. The sample is still a touch fizzy and usually I wait till it's no longer so before proceeding to the next phase.

 

[hefevice]

I'm impressed with the taste. Hints of banana and clove with neither being overpowering. That's why I'm loath to go my usual 'clean up' process as I know what I'd normally be trying to clean/flocc out is what's responsible for the goodness. I might leave it till Sunday or Monday then bottle. The sample is still a touch fizzy and usually I wait till it's no longer so before proceeding to the next phase.

Keg it! I've kegged most of mine at between 7 and 14 days. I normally ramp up the temperature from 17 to 20C over 3 days after the krausen starts to subside (normally 3-4 days). Main issue I have had kegging early is a bit of sulphur on the nose for a few days, but that goes away pretty quick.

First time I brewed one I crashed chilled it in the fermenter before kegging, and it turned out more like a Kristall. I don't do that anymore.

Kegged last batch (brewed on October 25) on Wednesday and carbed it this morning. Can't wait to get home to try it as it tasted great out of the fermenter.

 

[manticle]

Keg it!

I'm a bottling man.

 

[hefevice]

I'm a bottling man.

D'oh, yeah...missed that. Time to start

 

[O'Henry]

I know I am a little late on this one, but I have carbed at 4 vols for a hefe and it was fine. There was head, but it wasn't massive. I found it very refreshing. That said, when I bottle my next hefe this week I will be aiming for 3-3.2, so am sure this will be fine. Btw, I too favour low carb but a hefe is just so refreshing when it has that little extra...

 

[raven19]

A higher carbonation will also bring out a little more bitterness, bite and acidity in the brew due to increase levels of carbonic acid...

Maybe bulk prime half of the batch a little higher for a side by side? :icon_cheers: