Hangin' Up The Pillowcase - Biab To 3v

[argon]

Soooo Im making the jump from full volume (double batch actually) BIAB to a 3V all stainless gravity setup this weekend. Ive done a fair bit of reading on the pros and cons of BIAB vs 3V and there really isnt a lot to be said.especially for a standard size single batch. Ive been making some pretty good beers (IMHO) over the last 12 months or so using the ol pillowcase but now comes the time to retire it.

My main reason is so I can do double batches of bigger beers say 1060 and up. And also to do it all with a lot less dicking about.

For a BIAB double, I would heat up all my strike water, then draw off a certain amount into an esky, do my typical BIAB mash, mashout, then esky dunk sparge, dump the bag into a 19L stock pot to let it drain, pour off sparge liquor from esky back into kettle, pour in any dripped liquor from 19L into kettle, boil as usual.

So essentially I was messing about with 3 different vessels AND a bag which dripped everywhere. Its a reasonably messy process that needs quite a bit of attention Ive taken a simple process and convoluted it to the extent Ive now considered jumping ship. Probably if I was doing single batch beers without dunk sparging I would keep the status quo.

For 3V Simplified explanation but the process will now go heat up the HLT, add strike water to MLT, dough in, mash, infusion mash out, double batch sparge, boil. All without transferring the grain multiple times and what seems to me a lot less hassle.

I also plan to get the HLT run as an electric setup using a tempmate so I can prepare the water before I commence my brew day but thats not my reason for moving... just an added bonus.

Havent read too often anyone giving up BIAB but not to say on-one has Ive just got to the point where in my situation it makes sense to me. I have limited opportunities to brew, but have plenty of space and the ability to get all the gear together. Plus I like a bit of tinkering and nice shiny things

So anyone else considering the move to become a real brewer? h34r: (prob get flamed for that but anyway throw it out there :lol: )

 

[mje1980]

I tried to do a double 1.060 porter in my 47 litre esky. It couldn't really handle it. I did what i do for all my double batches, but only ended up with 1.048. The grains on the bottom were super sweet, its like there was too much sugar, not enough water. Only tried it once, so not conclusive, but i think 5% is around my limit for double batches in my tun. Single batches, well, i just did a tripel and was 2 points down, so no dramas there. And double batches of 3.5% bitters work really well.



Good luck, let us know how it goes

They're both different roads that lead to the same place.

 

[mxd]

I swapped for the same reason, I wanted to brew 40 ltrs in one 4-5 hour stint, that way I had a chance of keeping the fridge full and some cubes ready.

 

[Florian]

I changed over to 3v after only two BIABs. The beers turned out well, and I did not mind the process, just got the opportunity to get a 3v system up and running at reasonable cost. Although i now have problems with stuck sparges (or better: a blocked drain pipe) from time to time, I would not want to go back. Not having to lift and drain that bag is a great advantage to me, especially as I had no sky hook and the bag kept falling down where ever I tried to hang it onto.

I know there are great beers to be made with BIAB and I did this myself, and people even win prizes like trips to New Zealand with BIAB beers, but I just love a proper (well, half decent it is for me) mash tun, There is just something about opening and closing that ball valve whenever I want that really excites me :unsure:

Florian

 

[Synthetase]

I've also moved from BIAB to 3V. Mainly because of the stuffing around trying to get as much from the bag as possible. It's just so much easier to batch sparge.

 

[argon]

Good to hear that others have ventured down the road of 3V away from BIAB with some success... doing more research today on the process and things seem pretty simple... especially for a double batch sparge. Not expecting great efficiency on the first brew... but not overly concerned... it'll work out in the long run.

It always seemed a hassle to make the beers and volumes i was chasing... so hopefully i can achieve this now with minimal fuss.

No more sticky mess on the garage floor, no more carrying 9kg of wet hot grain around, no more squeezing, no more dunk sparging... looking forward to it now.

Now to tinker around thinking about a march pump and a herms.

 

[Fents]

9kg of wet hot grain around,

unfortuantly you still have to empty a mash tun just like you do a bag. although you can let it cool down and bucket/shovel it out and i guess you dont have to lug round the 9kg's all at once.

 

[under]

Im loving biab. But in the end I will also go to 3v system. but for the time being I say the beers im making are farking AAAAAAAAAA

 

[argon]

unfortuantly you still have to empty a mash tun just like you do a bag. although you can let it cool down and bucket/shovel it out and i guess you dont have to lug round the 9kg's all at once.

Yeah you're right.. knowing me i'll just grab the whole pot and then just hose it out... probably alot heavier doing it that way But at least i won't have to put on the high temp gloves and have wort dripping on me and on the ground... and having the mrs complain about the amount of sticky mess in the garage. <_<

Im loving biab. But in the end I will also go to 3v system. but for the time being I say the beers im making are farking AAAAAAAAAA

yeah i'm loving the beers i'm making with BIAB too... no idea if the beer i'll make in the future will be better or worse. But i reckon i'll enjoy the making part a bit more.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

I was actually thinking of regressing to BIAB - but I may just redesign my 3v system

I think it's time for a new mash tun config and some HLT tweaks

Just as soon as these never ending reno's are over and I can move back to more important things... like making beer

Cheers

 

[Acasta]

Im loving biab. But in the end I will also go to 3v system. but for the time being I say the beers im making are farking AAAAAAAAAA

Yeah boiii!

Also, i was thinking of upgrading my kettle, and future proof for a 3V setup.

 

[argon]

UPDATE got the first 3V Ag under the belt last night. Was a lot more pleasant than trying to do double batch BIAB.

Only had one small glitch in the system my kettle pick up tube decided to break the olive to the compression fitting and I didnt have replacement hanging around. So decided to just take it off and let the kettle flow straight out the ball valve. No problem really just left a couple more litres of wort than usual in the kettle so effectively dropping my post boil efficiency. Hit my numbers fine enough through the mash and into the kettle. First 3V efficiency was not really high on the priority list.

Decided to a nice little Mild, inspired my LC Rogers... all Cascade, 24IBU, 30EBC, 1034 OG

Got some good advice regarding doughing in that helped demystify a few things my temps stayed nice and consistent over the 60min mash. Also, for the first one, decided to keep things really simple no mashout and a single batch sparge.

After recircing a couple of times probably the clearest wort Ive ever seen go into the kettle probably the clearest difference between BIAB and 3V post mash. So, happy man this morning 2 cubes of Mild ready to be pitched tonight. Cant wait for the next one.

Things to change for next time/future;
- get a new pickup tube/compression fitting (mmm... beer belly shiny stuff :icon_drool2: )
- perform a mash out
- double batch sparge
- Install element, tempmate, thermowell into HLT for automated start and ease of hitting temps

Anyhoo conclusion... easier brew day for me. (and same amount of time which was a surprise)

 

[MeLoveBeer]

Nice work Argon, sounds like a pretty good first brew day on the new kit; not much you can do about equipment breaking, but sounds like you had the controllable parts of the brew day sorted (up until now I've always run the wort out without a pickup tube and never had a problem).

Mash out is simple... just use your kettle to boil water, then add until you hit your mash out temp.

 

[argon]

Nice work Argon, sounds like a pretty good first brew day on the new kit; not much you can do about equipment breaking, but sounds like you had the controllable parts of the brew day sorted (up until now I've always run the wort out without a pickup tube and never had a problem).

Mash out is simple... just use your kettle to boil water, then add until you hit your mash out temp.

Yeah thanks mate... went pretty well actually. Started it early for me... doughed in at 4.30pm final clean up was before 8pm. and that's with mowing the lawn, bathing the son, having dinner and watching some TV. Not bad day at all.

When i BIAB i always do a mashout by direct firing the tun... so'll do the same for the next time. Probably a bit of half and half, cause the next grain bill is 12.60kg in 50L tun. So add 10L or so of boiling water and adjust the heat with the burner up to mashout temp.

I'll definitely be getting a new pickup tube, cause there was a least 4 litres of clear wort in the kettle after the whirlpool. Had a nice cone of trub and hop debris too.

 

[eric8]

I have been thinking of going 3V as well. I just bought a new 2200w element for the kettle, decided to do this as Gregor had found some cheap ones and the last time I brewed I ran out of gas in 2 bottles.

My reason for changing is that I have a new job where I am learning a hell of a lot more about the brewing process and things are seeming a lot easier to understand, I also love making new things to go with the brewery as well, so an added advantage.

I think I will keep all my BIAB stuff in case #V doesn't work or takes to long and I want to do a batch quickly. BIAB has been great for me over the past few years and it got me into AG, so I will always be thankful to those who came up with the ideas for it.

 

[argon]

I have been thinking of going 3V as well. I just bought a new 2200w element for the kettle, decided to do this as Gregor had found some cheap ones and the last time I brewed I ran out of gas in 2 bottles.

My reason for changing is that I have a new job where I am learning a hell of a lot more about the brewing process and things are seeming a lot easier to understand, I also love making new things to go with the brewery as well, so an added advantage.

I think I will keep all my BIAB stuff in case #V doesn't work or takes to long and I want to do a batch quickly. BIAB has been great for me over the past few years and it got me into AG, so I will always be thankful to those who came up with the ideas for it.

Depends what youre motivations are for me I want to brew twice as much half as often. So single batches are not on the radar. Double batch BIAB was proving a little too cumbersome for me. The bigger the beers the harder it was becoming. Yes, I could have upped the size of my kettle to accommodate. But now Ive done a 3V I think the process is still inherently simple.

 

[eric8]

I have never tried a double in BIAB, seemed a bit too much to me and always thought the bag would break. I am with you on the double batches, seems a very good reason and certainly one that I will be taking advantage of.

 

[Screwtop]

UPDATE got the first 3V Ag under the belt last night. Was a lot more pleasant than trying to do double batch BIAB.

Only had one small glitch in the system my kettle pick up tube decided to break the olive to the compression fitting and I didnt have replacement hanging around. So decided to just take it off and let the kettle flow straight out the ball valve. No problem really just left a couple more litres of wort than usual in the kettle so effectively dropping my post boil efficiency. Hit my numbers fine enough through the mash and into the kettle. First 3V efficiency was not really high on the priority list.

Decided to a nice little Mild, inspired my LC Rogers... all Cascade, 24IBU, 30EBC, 1034 OG

Got some good advice regarding doughing in that helped demystify a few things my temps stayed nice and consistent over the 60min mash. Also, for the first one, decided to keep things really simple no mashout and a single batch sparge.

After recircing a couple of times probably the clearest wort Ive ever seen go into the kettle probably the clearest difference between BIAB and 3V post mash. So, happy man this morning 2 cubes of Mild ready to be pitched tonight. Cant wait for the next one.

Things to change for next time/future;
- get a new pickup tube/compression fitting (mmm... beer belly shiny stuff :icon_drool2: )
- perform a mash out
- double batch sparge
- Install element, tempmate, thermowell into HLT for automated start and ease of hitting temps

Anyhoo conclusion... easier brew day for me. (and same amount of time which was a surprise)

Well done, onward and upward. You think your wort was clear, wait until it has had 10 min at MO temp. A suggestion......... include a float switch in the wiring of your HLT element. Can forget it then without burning your element, el cheapo from Jaycar to operate a relay with 30A contacts for the element.

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[argon]

Well done, onward and upward. You think your wort was clear, wait until it has had 10 min at MO temp. A suggestion......... include a float switch in the wiring of your HLT element. Can forget it then without burning your element, el cheapo from Jaycar to operate a relay with 30A contacts for the element.

Cheers,

Screwy

Thanks again Screwy for the advice... this and the previous.

Was definitely tempted to add the MO step. But just thought i'd get the basics down pat first... just to experience any challenges. Nothing happened that i didn't expect so next time mash out is definitely on the cards.

Not a bad idea re the float switch... will have to put some thought into that... just still trying to find a good element at this stage. HLT will have all sorts hanging off it by the time i'm done with it. Sight tube is a must for me too. Nice and easy for my volumes.

Just gotta convince the mrs that another brew day is due this weekend for another bash at it.... especially considering one of my Helles cubes has swollen up <_< :icon_vomit:

 

[MeLoveBeer]

A suggestion......... include a float switch in the wiring of your HLT element. Can forget it then without burning your element, el cheapo from Jaycar to operate a relay with 30A contacts for the element.

Got a picture Screwy? Am currently building my new and improved electric HLT and would be very interested in seeing how you've implemented the float switch.