Ghetto Rims: Keggle + Urn Element?

[jonw]

Hello folks,

I've been thinking about upgrading to a RIMS or HERMS system. I have a 50L keggle with a false bottom, and use a March pump to recirculate. It seems to me that the cheapest way of going RIMS would be to put an urn element (concealed or otherwise) in the bottom of the keggle below the false bottom (PID controller aside, but that probably a post for the arduino development thread.)

Has anybody else done this? If so, what element did you use and where did you get it?

Cheers,

Jon

 

[Dan Pratt]

Hello folks,

I've been thinking about upgrading to a RIMS or HERMS system. I have a 50L keggle with a false bottom, and use a March pump to recirculate. It seems to me that the cheapest way of going RIMS would be to put an urn element (concealed or otherwise) in the bottom of the keggle below the false bottom (PID controller aside, but that probably a post for the arduino development thread.)

Has anybody else done this? If so, what element did you use and where did you get it?

Cheers,

Jon

I'd suggest a hex unit if your already recirculating, I'm sure there's a thread on here to build one and you could use that with the pid controller.

Found the link

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=63362

 

[jonw]

I'd suggest a hex unit if your already recirculating, I'm sure there's a thread on here to build one and you could use that with the pid controller.

Found the link

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=63362

Why's that? I've been following the various Herms and rims threads, but I don't know what advantage they have over a "direct fired" mash tun. The advantage of the latter is that there are no extra things to set up or clean.

 

[KillerRx4]

Yeah, its been done.

See > http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=732388

 

[jonw]

Yeah, its been done.

See > http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=732388

Thanks. That's the pointer I needed. Looks like it's quite doable. Any idea where to get a 2400w concealed element?

 

[CONNOR BREWARE]

Thanks. That's the pointer I needed. Looks like it's quite doable. Any idea where to get a 2400w concealed element?

There is a link to them in the thread that Killerx4 gave you,Tobins

 

[QldKev]

Why's that? I've been following the various Herms and rims threads, but I don't know what advantage they have over a "direct fired" mash tun. The advantage of the latter is that there are no extra things to set up or clean.

Yeah, its been done.

See > http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=732388

I've got a concealed element 'internal RIMS' and also a HERMS setup on my mash tun. Have a look at video of it and how I've set up the temp probe. I've added the HERMS unit as 2400w RIMS was enough power for ramping a 100L batch, it would not be a problem for a normal single or double sized brew. I've got a good side by side comparison of RIMS vs HERMS.

In theory the RIMS is one less bit to clean up, but in practice I need to spend a few minutes scrubbing it after every use. I don't get black burnt crap on it, but a white coating. I find it takes just as long to clean it as it does to clean the small sized HERMS/HERMIT. On brew days I just leave 10L of hot water in my HLT (on smaller system you would probably leave less) and once I've finished transferring all the wort to the kettle I pump the fresh hot water through the HERMS. Once every 6 months I'll run PBW through it.

With my larger pot/mash tun having a flat bottom the element sat down from it so I needed to mount feet to lift the pot clear. I also wasn't happy having the electrics exposed, both a hazard when plugged in and also when washing it with it getting wet. So I've mounted a diecast enclosure to house it. Have a look on my Website under homebrew/My gear/mash tun build for an idea of how we mounted it all up.

If I built it all again I would just go the HERMS with more power, and forget about issues of RIMS and protein rests.

just my 2c

QldKev

 

[jonw]

I've got a concealed element 'internal RIMS' and also a HERMS setup on my mash tun. Have a look at video of it and how I've set up the temp probe. I've added the HERMS unit as 2400w RIMS was enough power for ramping a 100L batch, it would not be a problem for a normal single or double sized brew. I've got a good side by side comparison of RIMS vs HERMS.

In theory the RIMS is one less bit to clean up, but in practice I need to spend a few minutes scrubbing it after every use. I don't get black burnt crap on it, but a white coating. I find it takes just as long to clean it as it does to clean the small sized HERMS/HERMIT. On brew days I just leave 10L of hot water in my HLT (on smaller system you would probably leave less) and once I've finished transferring all the wort to the kettle I pump the fresh hot water through the HERMS. Once every 6 months I'll run PBW through it.

With my larger pot/mash tun having a flat bottom the element sat down from it so I needed to mount feet to lift the pot clear. I also wasn't happy having the electrics exposed, both a hazard when plugged in and also when washing it with it getting wet. So I've mounted a diecast enclosure to house it. Have a look on my Website under homebrew/My gear/mash tun build for an idea of how we mounted it all up.

If I built it all again I would just go the HERMS with more power, and forget about issues of RIMS and protein rests.

just my 2c

QldKev

Kev,

Thanks. I hadn't thought about the protein rest problem with RIMS. I'll look into that further.

Unfortunately I don't have a brew stand - all my gear lives in various storage places around/under the house and in the shed, so each time I brew I have to put it all together and take it all apart afterwards. That was one reason with gong with a self contained RIMS. The other one is cost - ~$80 for an element from Tobins + temp probe vs. coil + kettle + plumbing + temp probe for HERMS.

 

[pk.sax]

If you aren't too fussed about having it electric, just use the smallest lp gas burner you can find and use it under the pot and recirculate via pump constantly to keep it all from burning under the fb. Works well and has the added benefit of a pseudo low density heating element that doesn't give protein rest issues.
I've just used a standard wok burner on an adjustable reg and it pumps enough heat into a single batch to lift it by 1C a minute or close.

 

[QldKev]

If you aren't too fussed about having it electric, just use the smallest lp gas burner you can find and use it under the pot and recirculate via pump constantly to keep it all from burning under the fb. Works well and has the added benefit of a pseudo low density heating element that doesn't give protein rest issues.
I've just used a standard wok burner on an adjustable reg and it pumps enough heat into a single batch to lift it by 1C a minute or close.

How do you regulate the temp with the burner? A while back I looked at LPG but got worried about pilot lights etc blowing out when I wasn't around.

QldKev

 

[crozdog]

Hi Jon,

I've recently made a herms out of a found asahi keg. mounted uxcell elements in the bottom after grinding the top out. I already had a coil so it was only a days work - if that.

Auber pid's rtds & SSRs are pretty cheap as are tackle boxes to mount em... you already have the pump - just need a vessel and coil. I have another asahi keg & some 1/2" annealed copper if that helps you.

if you are open to non ghetto - checkout the rims units punkin sells.

beers
croz

 

[Cocko]

Kev,

Thanks. I hadn't thought about the protein rest problem with RIMS. I'll look into that further.

WTF! How TF does any different system affect a rest temp?

Umm....

 

[beerbrewer76543]

Proteins gumming up and scorching the element...

 

[pk.sax]

How do you regulate the temp with the burner? A while back I looked at LPG but got worried about pilot lights etc blowing out when I wasn't around.

QldKev

Turning the gas knob. Get used to where it just maintains temp. Basically the minimum with insulated sides of the mash tun and just more than min for an un-insulated tun. Not fancy but it does the job mash is only about an hour long.

 

[QldKev]

WTF! How TF does any different system affect a rest temp?

Umm....

Proteins gumming up and scorching the element...

Exactly, have a look how many people have burnt out RIMS elements due to proteins.

 

[Cocko]

Proteins gumming up and scorching the element...

Exactly, have a look how many people have burnt out RIMS elements due to proteins.

Ahhh... gotcha.

 

[crozdog]

just remembered I can help you with elements too ;-)

 

[jonw]

Hi Jon,

I've recently made a herms out of a found asahi keg. mounted uxcell elements in the bottom after grinding the top out. I already had a coil so it was only a days work - if that.

Auber pid's rtds & SSRs are pretty cheap as are tackle boxes to mount em... you already have the pump - just need a vessel and coil. I have another asahi keg & some 1/2" annealed copper if that helps you.

if you are open to non ghetto - checkout the rims units punkin sells.

beers
croz

Phil, thanks. I might just take you up on that. What size are the asahi kegs?

Cheers,

jon

 

[crozdog]

Phil, thanks. I might just take you up on that. What size are the asahi kegs?

Cheers,

jon

19l - same as a cornie except they have an A type coupler fitting. that comes off easily with a grinder

I'll be in Sydney next weekend if you wanted to drop over.
here is what I made - but have an idea on how to not need the poly pipe base that I needed to protect the electrical wiring.



edited to add pics