Get into O2 guys, if you're serious about nicer beer

[Gout]

You will never use all that gas in a life time, unless you get a leak. The disposable bottles hold enough that I shouldn't have to replace it for a few years. Its better for me as its smaller and easier to store.

Sorry i wasn't trying to say its the only way to go - and i agree its heaps more o2 than required, just for me it seemed a good way to go. I have other bottles of the same size on similar agreements and it works OK for me. ...... and i might be able to tell my wife an oxy set is now worth while - again not really needed but hey.

The CO2 is the best return (I used to hire bottles many years ago but the rent free agreement is perfect for me)
then mig gas ( i randomly weld but when i do its great - so beats rental)
O2 is just for beer (might be average value but i'm happy enough with it)

If i used logic i wouldn't have all the toys i never use in my shed "just in case"

 

[FarsideOfCrazy]

Hey Gout, a nurse friend of mine used to suck in a bit of oxygen when she had a hangover. I've never tried it but she used to swear by it.

Maybe there's another use for your massive supply of O2.

 

[Gout]

Hey Gout, a nurse friend of mine used to suck in a bit of oxygen when she had a hangover. I've never tried it but she used to swear by it.
Maybe there's another use for your massive supply of O2.

yeah... nah i think i'll give that a miss surly it was a O2 mix or at least only a very slow release so it mixed in with the ambient air your breathing in like people with breathing difficulty/masks.
That said i hear the casino's enrich the air with o2 to keep people awake and gambling deep into the night (so i was told when in Vegas)

 

[MHB]

Must have had a misspent youth - I remember a few mornings at work sticking the Oxy cutter into a welding glove and deep breathing... it helps, coffee aspro OJ and all the usual, but O2 helps.

Urban myth, the one about Oxygen in casinos, I think Ray Bradbury did it as a short story in the 50's. Back then you could still smoke indoors so I think people would have noticed the really fast cigarettes if nothing else.
Mark

 

[pcqypcqy]

Has anyone done an in-line O2 set up with a counter flow or plate chiller on a homebrew scale? Does this address the efficieny issues noted by LC and a few others, i.e. that a decent portion of the oxygen introduced via a stone can simply be lost to the atmosphere?

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

It would if you had a long enough hose: 6 metres should do it.

 

[pcqypcqy]

It would if you had a long enough hose: 6 metres should do it.

I take it that this length needs to be after the stone? If you tried injecting on the hot side, this would reduce the efficiency again I take it.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

I've never seen a setup with injection on the hot side. The reasoning has always been that due to the solubility being lower and the reaction rates being higher there will be an increase in undesireable side reactions.

 

[pcqypcqy]

I've never seen a setup with injection on the hot side. The reasoning has always been that due to the solubility being lower and the reaction rates being higher there will be an increase in undesireable side reactions.

Yep, understood. My point is that I can see this working for a hard plumbed system like in a brewery, but for a counterflow chiller in a home brew set up, having an additional 6m of coil/pipe on the cold side increases build costs and infection risks. The cost of gas being much cheaper than copper of course.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Large breweries have hard lines between brewhouse and fermenters* but most craft scale breweries don't, they simply use a length of Brewer's Delivery hose.

At HB scale you'd get away with a few metres of silicone hose.


*Fun fact: When I worked for the first large scale "craft" brewery in Australia many, many years ago, they set up a new brewery in an old car factory which was long and thin. Whoever installed the hard lines forgot to factor in thermal expansion during hot wash, the lines would buckle badly enough to lift off their supports.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

This wort oxygenation thing for real, or what. Is it really that different than pitching well and shaking the shid outta your carboy?

 

[manticle]

Yes. There's a lot of info out there about the recommended o2 level and the maximum shaking can achieve.

 

[Coldspace]

This wort oxygenation thing for real, or what. Is it really that different than pitching well and shaking the shid outta your carboy?

Yes, if all other process is dialed in. It's not miracle cure, just another better technique in the chain of brewing.

 

[MHB]

This wort oxygenation thing for real, or what. Is it really that different than pitching well and shaking the shid outta your carboy?

No we are all making it up to cover for the embarrassment of having spent good hard earned on O2 systems.
Doing a good job of hiding our mistakes aren't we 38 pages and over 750 posts in this thread alone, it isn't the only O2 thread around either.
Seriously dude if you want to know the answer, its been addresses enough times earlier in this thread.
Mark

 

[Jack of all biers]

... other than one H2O2 bottle that to me tasted like a shandy (if I didn't open the bottle, pour it myself and have held onto it the whole time, I would have been convinced that someone put lemonade in there). Two mates tasted that same bottle and one said unhelpfully, "it tastes weird" and the other said "It tastes like cardboard". Ah ha, I thought. This mate has no idea about the experiment or any experience with beer flavours (off flavours) other than the barrels he's drunk in his life so far. I was convinced this would spell the beginning of things to come, and it may yet, but H2O2 bottles consumed since show no similar flavours. It's also interesting that I could taste a Lemonade flavour? and he said "cardboard". I'm convinced that that bottle was oxidised, but one bottle proves nothing, so the experiment goes on.

....

The tasting comparison will go on.

So this will be my last post about the H2O2 experiment, as all the bottles are finished (after 8 months). All up, I found that about 6 of the H2O2 bottles showed similar signs to the early find I described above. Only one of the aerated bottles (from 25L) showed a similar flavour, which I put down to oxidising from bottling. So 6 from the entire 25L batch 'oxygenated' by H2O2 were less than good. All the others were fairly good and to top things off, after the last few raised the total up, the very last one was great. All up the aerated batch tasted better all through, with the H2O2 being more hit and miss. I think this does indicate that, for me at least, the idea was good, but the randomness of the O- factor defecting your beers, is just not worth it.

H2O2 as a ghetto oxygenation method. Nah, you're better off aerating.

(I'll post this in the H2O2 thread that Adr_0 started up, but thought as all my original results are on this thread, I'd post here first.)

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Just to add another option, "vitality starters". Putting your single-batch pitch on the stirplate with 500ml of fresh wort, and spinning the hell out of it for 4-6 hours. You oxygenate the vitality starter wort (or not), and then spin it up with the yeast. This is to oxygenate the yeast as fully as possible in the phase it most needs it, rather than oxygenating your entire batch of wort. I've done a few of them now and, anecdotally speaking, I can't tell the difference between batches of the same wort done on the same yeast, one with the vitality starter and the other with more typical oxygenation. I'm seeing krausen within 8 hours using the vitality starters. Apparently the idea originally came from Coors, via Colin Kaminsky.

Coors England developed an amazing method that is perfect for homebrewers to steal. Take a stir plate and make a starter. Add yeast and 10˚P wort [1.040 SG]. Aerate for 4 hours. At the end of 4 hours pitch into the wort. Do not aerate the batch. This maximizes “vitality.” Vitality is the most difficult to measure and important parameter in yeast. A standard starter is fermented out and then re-pitched. This [a vitality starter] uses continuous air and only allows the starter to spin for 4 hours. No alcohol is produced. The yeast respires but does not enter fermentation until after it’s pitched into the wort.

Apparently the technique originally came from two folks named Boulton and Quain.

It's an interesting notion that's holding out in my fermentations, at least according to flavour and storage duration. I wouldn't say it's making better beer than any other means of getting O2 to the yeast, but it certainly seems at least equal to the others.

Really interesting Mardoo, I have found other reads on this subject but I first came across it some time ago I believe it was in the 60's some UK brewers had success with this method but I thought they were injecting the o2 into the starter which I have since read would kill the yeast.
You may be interested in this. http://www.beertools.com/html/articles.php?view=251

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

I thought they were injecting the o2 into the starter which I have since read would kill the yeast.

That's not true, you can oxygenate a starter to your heart's content. What you shouldn't do is oxygenate dormant cropped yeast.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

http://brulosophy.com/2015/07/13/wort-aeration-pt-2-shaken-vs-pure-oxygen-exbeeriment-results/

 

[technobabble66]

Lol, you might need a flamesuit with that ^^

Typical Brulosophy experiment: highly-hopped 5% APA beer with lots of malts/fermentables, struggles to detect any difference between industry standard practice and a backyard shortcut.

Worth noting you don't NEED O2 to brew beer or even produce a decent/good result, and some styles are less likely to exhibit differences. However, there is a benefit to using the O2 if you have access to it.

I've learnt to take these experiments with a massive pile of salt.

 

[MHB]

One of interesting effects of the WWW is the amount of information available, sadly there is a lot of it really is Fake News (to use a Trumpism), ill-researched, opinion, otherwise well dressed crap and brulosophy. As well related to science as is the anti-immunisation crowd, conspiracy theorists...
Try this as a starting point Oxygen_1[1].pdf
There is also plenty of information on the amount of O2 you will get into solution from shaking, bubbling, stir plates (not enough) - as compared to what you can get by using pure O2.
Mark