Fermenting in the kettle.

[Dave70]

Apart from tying the kettle up for a couple of weeks, not really an issue for me as I'm not that prolific a brewer, can anybody see a reason why you couldn't chill the brew to pitching temp, ad yeast and glad wrap it? Hop debris a non issue since I began using a the mesh basket.
The reason being under my house remains at a pretty much a constant 18 - 20 deg in the warmer months, even on ripping hot days a simple fan and damp towel draped over the vessel - coolgardie safe style - keeps ales within range, so I really don't need a to hold it in the fridge. Lugging the kettle ten feet to where it needs to be is no big deal either.
Its stainless and its sterile.
Is there some huge fly in the ointment I'm missing here?

 

[Feldon]

So, does that make it a fettle or a kermentor?

Can't see huge problems with it. One positive is that you can use the heat from the boil to sanitize the vessel ready for fermenting (I take it you will be chilling in the kettle then pitching yeast).

 

[klangers]

Nothing jumps out at me, apart from trub and utilisation that you've already mentioned.

 

[Yob]

hot break?

if consuming reasonably quickly not a real issue..

 

[Dave70]

hot break?

if consuming reasonably quickly not a real issue..

I dunno, the hot break thing seems to be much ado about nothing (or very little). If you agree with this guy anyway. And I do.
Some brews I've super careful about keeping the hotbreak material out of the fermenter, others I began drinking earlier in the day. Pretty much made no difference to the final product.

http://brulosophy.com/2014/06/02/the-great-trub-exbeeriment-results-are-in/

 

[manticle]

That comparison does not deal with aged samples which was Yob's point.

There's a number of reasons hot break is considered best left out - accelerated aging reactions is a big one.

 

[Blind Dog]

http://brewhaequipment.com/

These guys have an all in-one system that does just what you're suggesting, sans glad wrap (someone should tell them). They've got 'reviews' from professional brewers on the site extolling its virtues, although I'd take them with a jar of salt.

Never quite sure of the value of the brulosophy 'experiments' given they're effectively one-offs; always food for thought though, and it might just be worth a go

 

[Bribie G]

My first thought was that if this was feasible, then commercial breweries would have been doing this for centuries.
Then my second thought was that commercial breweries don't really appreciate having their kettles tied up for a couple of weeks.

Try and report.

 

[Dave70]

That comparison does not deal with aged samples which was Yob's point.

There's a number of reasons hot break is considered best left out - accelerated aging reactions is a big one.

Does this apply more or less to bottle aged or lagered beers? I guess that would be the fly in the ointment then.
Generally mine go directly from the fermenter to the keg and spend the rest of their lives at around 3 deg, so as Yob also alluded to, not so much a problem.

 

[sponge]

Pretty sure TB wrote up a decent post about the risks of having excessive hot break during fermentation. Not sure what thread it was in but I'm normally inclined to believe what he says.. I'd be interested to see how it turned out.

 

[contrarian]

I reckon if your kettle was a keggle and you had the capacity to drain through the rounded bottom you could eliminate most of the hot break by draining the couple of litres you normally lose anyway prior to chilling and then ferment away.

Could also be a helpful arrangement for collecting yeast to reuse.

 

[Dave70]

That's not a bad idea. At the very least its no big deal to siphon the break away after chilling.
After all, the point of the exercise isn't to see how much hot break I can ferment.

 

[Nattydstar]

How did it turn out mate?

I read that same experiment on brulosophy a month or two ago and was intrigued. Since then I've been saving the bottom 2-3 liters of each batch (ie: everything from the kettle is used), fermenting them in 5L demijohns and generally they've ended up tasting much the same.

So, I ummed and ahhd over it during my whole brew day yesterday and decided to bite the bullet. Brewed A Cali Common in my robobrew, for which I have a replacement lid which includes a silicone seal. I know you don't "need" to seal it, but I've got the lid, so why not? Towards the end of the boil I soaked the lid in starsan and wiped around the top of the boiler's inside for good measure.

After my final hop addition (when I'd usually transfer to a cube) I just sealed it up, and added an airlock (with hop bag-mesh on top and bottom just in case). Switched off both elements but left the Robobrew on so I could keep tabs on how quickly it cooled. It was down to pitching temp within about 22 hours so I aerated and pitched yeast.

I have a spare boiler, so tying it up for the fermentation wasn't a big deal, but the main reason I wanted to try this out is that it's such a great vessel to ferment in. I was a little weird getting to the end of brew day and not having anything left to clean, not that I minded!

I'll post again with some notes after this one's kegged and been sampled by the crew.

 

[MHB]

There are NO identifiable advantages to fermenting on hot break, there are lots of well known downsides, so why would you even think of it.
Is it really that hard to run the wort out of the kettle and into a fermenter?
Mark

 

[Nattydstar]

Sheesh, thanks for the advice mate, what was i thinking!

 

[dr K]

I have fermented in the kettle, and more than once.
You do not need glad wrap but you do need the right time of year (goldilocks weather)
Lower gravity is a good idea ....
You do need to chill, immersion is my choice.
You do need to be generous with a powerful yeast (Nottingham works)
You need to get it fermented and in the keg as soon as you can.

All things aligning the beer really will be remarkable, that is remarkable that a drinkable beer was made this way, but unless you need to show a point or...it was late at night and WTF Nike.
Its a waste of ingredients and the time up to finish of the chill.

K

 

[Nattydstar]

At the risk of being further poo-poo'd...For the record, and for anyone else considering this in the future.

I've completed three brews in this way: no-chill in the kettle, pitching about 20 hours later, and fermenting in the kettle.

I've brewed a California Common (6.5% ABV), a Black IPA (6.1%) and an American Pale Ale (5.5%) and they've all turned out great, indistinguishable from similar beers brewed and fermented in the traditional way.

One thing I don't like about this method is the kettle is a bitch to clean, and there's a crap-load of trub, well above the tap outlet which means siphoning, instead of using my tap to rack the beer to a keg. So I'm back to no-chilling in a cube, but I am still fermenting in my kettle - I just transfer back to it the next day when it's clean and sanitised.

 

[MHB]

Oh you mean you're boiling in your fermenter.