Everyone Should Make This

[Thunderlips]

The different times gives different flavor parts, such as aroma, "flavor" or bittering,

If I understand it correctly I believe the first addition is bittering, the second is flavour and the
third is aroma.

Is that right?

 

[BjornJ]

If I understand it correctly I believe the first addition is bittering, the second is flavour and the
third is aroma.

Is that right?

Yes, that is 100 % right.
The first hop addition to be added is where you start timing your boil from. So if you say want to use 10 gr of Saaz for bittering, you will put 10 gr of hops in say a small netting bag from a $2 store, tie it up and throw it in the pot when boiling. This is your starting point, it decides how long the entire boil will last.
If the recipe says "10 gr of Saaz at 60 minutes" and you throw the hops in at 1:00 PM, you will finish boiling at 2:00 PM.
Then the recipe says "10 grams of Cascade at 20 minutes" and since you plan to stop boiling at 2:00, 20 minutes before that is 1:40 PM, you throw the second hop bag in at 1:40.
Then the recipe says for instance "20 grams of Saaz at 5 minutes", so 5 minutes before end-of-boil is 1:55 PM, you throw in the third hop bag at 5 minutes before you plan to stop boiling.

Hop bag 1: 60 minutes boil, most of the flavor and aroma will boil away, leaving a bitter effect
Hop bag 2: 20 minutes boil, will leave a little bittering, mostly flavour but some aroma will still be left
hop bag 3: 5 minutes boil, not enough time to bitter the beer much, not enough time to give lots of flavor, but enough to give that nice, fresh aroma or smell.

Please look at this graph as it gives a good illustration of
-how long do you boil the hops based on what you are aiming for
-do you need to boil a long time, or are you only after a bit of flavor





If you are doing kit beers, buy a "teabag" of hops, one of those foil bags with 12-15 gr of hops. Don't worry about the AA% as you will not use it for bittering.
Boil it in some water, steep it like a teabag or even boil som Malt Extract and then boil the hops in this, looking at the graph to decide how long to boil it. Aim for say 5-10 minutes as a first go at adding hops.

The shorter the boil, the more "fresh" the beer will smell/taste and you don't want (I assume) to do hop additions to make your beer more bitter as the cans come "pre hopped" to a level of bitterness.

thanks
Bjorn

 

[Thunderlips]

Please look at this graph as it gives a good illustration of
-how long do you boil the hops based on what you are aiming for
-do you need to boil a long time, or are you only after a bit of flavor

View attachment 30399

Good one.

That'll come in handy, thanks.

 

[mwd]

If you don't have or use hop bags or stockings you can get a nylon kitchen seive from K-Mart.

They have a white plastic looking frame with a nylon mesh which looks a bit flimsy but is quite strong and can stand boiling fluid easily. I press the hop sludge quite hard with a wooden spoon to extract the most of the fluid and have not managed to break the seive yet.

I put the seive over the mouth of the fermenter and pour the boiled hop malt mixture through it.

edit: forgot that the hop mush has actually been cooled by standing pot in sink of cold water before adding to fermenter.

 

[Neill]

my particular method is to get 5L of water in a big pot, bring it to the boil, add 1/3 of a tin of LME (so 500g) to the water, stir it well and when it starts boiling again, start adding the hops. in this case we add 20g of centennial, boil it for 10 mins, then add 40g of amarillo, boil it all for another 10 mins, throw in another 40g of amarillo and boil it for another 10 mins again. turn the heat off, pour the hot liquid through a strainer into the fermenter - you may have to do this in two stages as the hop material will clog the strainer. then add the rest of the LME and dex, mix it all well and top up to 23L with cold water. Wait till it's at 20 degrees then pitch your US05 or Notto.

When you're more confident with this type of brew, steep some cracked crystal grains to add a shade more complexity to the body of the beer.

Just finished one of these brews - bloody beautiful. The hop aroma is fading quickly on this one though - i recommend drinking it at 3 weeks in the bottle and finishing the batch within 8 weeks for full effect.

 

[Splash]

Heya fellow homebrewers.

This is my first post but I have been lurking here for a while and picking up much useful information, so thanks to all on the site!


I have been kits and bits for a year or so now, but I want to graduate to all extract (no equipment for AG... yet) and this thread has caught my eye. (I have done some grain steeping and made a raspberry beer with frozen fruit but that's the extent of my adventures so far.)


My question is about doing an experimental half-batch. When halving all the ingredients I assume I halve the hop amounts too? (but not the boil times obviously...) Would I halve the amount of water I boil them in too? Advice appreciated!

The other issue is that my local homebrew store doesn't have Centennial, so I was thinking of using Cascade and Amarillo... is this a bad idea? Revised boil amounts/times for a half batch?

Or even better, does anyone in Brisbane know where I can get Centennial?


Hello!

-Splash

 

[Neill]

mate full extract brewing is an extremely simple step from kits and bits, i wouldn't bother with half batches, just do it

but if you have to.....

halve everything. the hops, the extract amounts, the yeast pitching rates, everything. Everything except the boil times, and boil volume. Keep the boil times and gravity of the boil exactly the same.

So if you wanted to do a half batch of my recipe here, use;

1.5kg LME
250g Dex
steep 100g or so of cracked crystal grains or something if you want
boil 5L of water with 1/3 of one of the tins of LME in it. Add 10g of Centennial, boil for 10 mins. Then add 20g of Amarillo for another 10 mins, and finally another 20g of Amarillo for the final 10 mins.

Cascade and amarillo is an excellent combination as well. The other one to try to replace the centennial would be Galaxy, which i hear as somewhat similar to Centennial.

 

[Splash]

mate full extract brewing is an extremely simple step from kits and bits, i wouldn't bother with half batches, just do it

but if you have to.....

Wanting to halve it has more to do with how few bottles I'll have free after I bottle the porter currently in the fermenter, and also wanting to get this brew on before the Brisbane weather turns brew-unfriendly again.

Thanks for the advice! I think I can get Galaxy so maybe I'll go with that instead of the Cascade... Will keep you posted how it turns out.


-Splash

 

[Kieren]

Please look at this graph as it gives a good illustration of
-how long do you boil the hops based on what you are aiming for
-do you need to boil a long time, or are you only after a bit of flavor

View attachment 30399

Nice little graph Bjorn.

Can I ask where you got it from?

 

[BjornJ]

Nice little graph Bjorn.

Can I ask where you got it from?

Someone put it up here on the forums, I think.
I downloaded a copy of the picture at the time and use when making a recipe to try to get picture of how long to boil the hops.
Not sure who made it originally, does it look familiar?

Bjorn

 

[Kieren]

Someone put it up here on the forums, I think.
I downloaded a copy of the picture at the time and use when making a recipe to try to get picture of how long to boil the hops.
Not sure who made it originally, does it look familiar?

Bjorn

No, never seen a graph like this. Just wanted to who came up with it and how. Was interested if it applies to all hop varieties. Would imagine there might be a bit of variance with hops of different percentages of oil content and so on. Gives a good general guide though.

I do note that most flavour additions I see in recipes are at 30 mins while the graph peaks closer to 20 mins for maximum flavour.

 

[BjornJ]

I do note that most flavour additions I see in recipes are at 30 mins while the graph peaks closer to 20 mins for maximum flavour.

I have only done a couple of AGs myself but have read a bit of recipes and mostly the recipes seem to call for
60 min for bittering
20 min for flavor
(possibly 5 min or 0 min for aroma)
(possibly dry hopping in the secondary)

But I am sure there are lots of different recipes out there.

How accurat this graph is, I can not vouch for, simply passing on someone else's work here

According to Palmer, you are right:
http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter5-1.html
He says the most common is to boil flavor hops 30 min.

Could this possibly have changed in the last decades with new hop varieties with different AA%, no idea.
Another reason is possibly the more hop-flavored beers that has become more popular in recent years.

Thanks
Bjorn

 

[oaf]

... made up to 23 litres (standard batch volume) and for the boil i just used 6L with about 1/3 of one of the LME tins added (600g in 6L is about right for gravity to utilise the hops properly)

G'day Neill,

Does it make a difference how much malt you're boiling the hops in??

I thought you'da used all of the malt...

I've also never used that much water - 4L with 3 to 4 kg malt in the boil.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

-Oaf.

p.s. this is by far my favourite site. I've been trial and error brewing nearly six years now as a lone wolf and never learnt so much in so little time. My obsession is fast getting out of control now as I've recently acquired a 50L glass double fermenter (good riddance plastic), a fermenting fridge and ten 19L kegs... I'm also obsessed with ginger beer at the moment - hope that's not too lame - it seems to make you 'aliver' as you get stupider. (I still have bottles for trading goods and services, but avoid them if possible.)
End of rant - I luv brewing!

 

[Neill]

Yes it does make a difference, ideally you would boil the hops in the whole batch (23L) but since i don't have a massive pot or enough gas power to get that to the boil, we tend to just do smaller boils which still come out okay. The important thing is that the gravity of the boiled liquid is roughly 1040. This gives the best (and most consistent) utilisation of the hops for bittering and flavour. To make the boil liquid 1040, you can basically use 100g of sugar/malt/DME per litre. I usually don't bother measuring it specifically but just guesstimate 500g of LME into a 5L pot of water or so.

Sticking 3kg of LME into 5L of water is going to give you a massive gravity reading and the hop utilisation will likely suffer for it. Aim for 1040.

Of course at the end of the boil, if you really want to, you can throw in all the fermentables to the pot so as to sterilise them. I usually just put the rest of the LME in right at the end, stir it for 10 seconds then throw into the fermenter.

 

[Bribie G]

Fellow little-old-lady-from-Pasadena 60 y.o. at work likes a drop and I occasionally bring her a bottle to try. About this time last year I gave her a 2 PET of a toucan similar to Neill's recipe (toucan lager and bits) and she is still raving over it, says she prefers it to the AG's and is interested in taking up brewing because she is spending too much on vodka :icon_drunk: - makes her fall off her Kawasaki as well (you wouldn't believe this chick).

So I'll help her and her son get set up and donate some Notto and hops and crank out the current recipe here. I tried her on a Stout toucan 9% with extra hops so she's not averse to hoppiness. Good opportunity to get a new brewer going and completely bypass the sugar / BE2 etc stuff and get her ordering her bits from Ross.

:icon_cheers:

 

[Neill]

Mate it's a cracker for sure, i reckon she'll love it! I had a few more of these tonight - the passionfruit is fading quickly so drink them fast! Every beer drinker i've given this to has loved it - even the megaswill proponents

 

[oaf]

... the important thing is that the gravity of the boiled liquid is roughly 1040. This gives the best (and most consistent) utilisation of the hops for bittering and flavour. To make the boil liquid 1040, you can basically use 100g of sugar/malt/DME per litre. I usually don't bother measuring it specifically but just guesstimate 500g of LME into a 5L pot of water or so.

Sticking 3kg of LME into 5L of water is going to give you a massive gravity reading and the hop utilisation will likely suffer for it. Aim for 1040.


Thanks mate!

Shall try this on my next brew... maybe then I'll try this Toucan that's being raved about - I'm intrigued.

Cheers - Oaf

 

[Maeldric]

Was planning on making this brew last week but my local home brew shop didnt have any centenial hops. Had some Hallertauer lying around so used that instead. Used 3kg of LME also threw in a couple hundred grams of crystal, the hallertauer and amerillo hops. Been a week in the fermenter now and its just about reached its final gravity. Tasted the hydro test and wow. This is going to be a lovely beer to drink, just gonna have to get my hands on some centenial next time to try the recipe to the T. Nice work mate on the recipe. will be one of my regulars.

 

[Neill]

the hallertau will probably be drowned out by the amarillo - but that's fine because a big late hopped amarillo beer is a good thing in itself! the centennial is another powerful hop and goes very well with the amarillo.

 

[WarmBeer]

Made this one last night, but as a full-volume-boil extract brew, and using US-05 instead of Notto.

Will report back on it in a couple of weeks, but smelled pretty good going into the fermenter.