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Double Dropping Lagers?

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SJW

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I have been reading up on this method and was wondering why it would not be a good thing to do with Lagers? Even if u did the second drop before pitching the yeast this would at least clean up the wort and add o2.
Would it have something to do with Lagers being bottom fermenting, thus double dropping a pitched Lager would just be leaving too much yeast behind?

Steve
 

Wolfy

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I think this is similar to a/the method described/talked about by JZ on various podcasts (and on page 43 of BCS) etc.

When the kettle is drained the wort is not usually cold enough to pitch lager yeast, so the fermentor goes into the fridge overnight (after your usual aeration method).
Then the next day the now-chilled-to-lager-pitching-temps wort is transferred to a second fermentor - break and trub is left behind and the wort is aerated, and the yeast is pitched at the correct temp.
Obviously you're leaving the wort for a period without yeast, so good sanitation is essential (but I've done it that way a few times and not had any problems).
 

Dazza88

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i have heard of double dropping before fermenting to aerate. i would be worried about flavor development if dd into ferment. butterscotch desired in a lager?
 

Bribie G

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The yeast eventually settles down to the bottom and works from there, but in the first few days there is more than enough activity in the whole brew, with sometimes as much krausen as an ale yeast. I'd try double dropping - in fact I'll be doing that with my German Pils - can't see it would do any harm, and certainly inject that second dose of oxygen.

Edit: Wychwood, with their Brakepear brews, state that they double drop to get diacetyl. However I don't think that applies to all styles, maybe just the yeast they use. From my experience of diacetyl it seems to stay in the beer when the fermentation has been a bit rushed, and maybe DD is Wychwood's way of doing the Brakspear fast and furious due to the initial hit of oxygen, then get her settled down ASAP before it can clean up all the diacetyl. Not likely to be a general problem with lagers and their long fermentation.

A bit of Diacetyl is bang on style for Bohemian Pilsners.
 

drsmurto

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I think this is similar to a/the method described/talked about by JZ on various podcasts etc.

When the kettle is drained the wort is not usually cold enough to pitch lager yeast, so the fermentor goes into the fridge overnight (after your usual aeration method).
Then the next day the now-chilled-to-lager-pitching-temps wort is transferred to a second fermentor - break and trub is left behind and the wort is aerated, and the yeast is pitched at the correct temp.
Obviously you're leaving the wort for a period without yeast, so good sanitation is essential (but I've done it that way a few times and not had any problems).
Why would you aerate wort if you aren't pitching yeast immediately?

Not having a go, I genuinely want to know the reasoning behind this thought.

My thoughts are that if you aerate a cooled, high sugar solution and then not innoculate with enough of your desired yeast then the plethora of other organisms that exist in nature which metabolise sugar are being giving a free meal or at least first crack at the buffet on offer.

@SJW - i see no reason why you can't pitch lager yeast and then aerate again the next morning. The more O2 you can dissolve in your wort before and during the growth phase of yeast the better.
 

Wolfy

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Why would you aerate wort if you aren't pitching yeast immediately?

Not having a go, I genuinely want to know the reasoning behind this thought.

My thoughts are that if you aerate a cooled, high sugar solution and then not innoculate with enough of your desired yeast then the plethora of other organisms that exist in nature which metabolise sugar are being giving a free meal or at least first crack at the buffet on offer.
It was more that I was implying that the 'usual' method of aeration (for many people I think) is simply splashing the crap out of it as it enters the fermentor, or using one of those aeration-nozzle things that CraftBrewer sells.
Personally, since aerating via shaking the fermentor usually takes some time (more than 5 mins constant work) I generally just sploosh it around while its cooling each time I walk past.

Does the presence of oxygen help or hinder the kind of other organisms we want to minimize?
 

SJW

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Good points there fellas, as far as what Dr Smurto is saying I cant see any reason to use my usual method of dropping from the BM into the fermenter if I was going to chill in fridge and pitch the next day. If I was going to do this I would just use some tube to slip the wort into the fermenter. But I can now chill my wort down to pitching temps so I guess the question is......will the normal aeration of wort be detrimental to the beer if left overnight oxygenated without yeast? I doubt it.

Steve
 

RdeVjun

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Did just that (i.e. double dropped a lager) yesterday, although it was a good bit less than a day between pitching and the second batch. Took two 15L no- chill cubes of Dunkel wort, the first not quite full and that was what I pitched initially (position cube above fermenter, remove lid and turn on tap, wait while oxygenation takes place... B) ), big healthy fresh starter and both cubes cooled to pitching temp. Second cube in much the same way as the first, I would've liked to wait a full day but it was closer to half.
I'll report any findings, obviously it is a bit early to tell anything much just now and maybe less than optimum duration between the first and the second wort addition, but a start is a start! :icon_cheers:
I wouldn't be emptying that first cube into the fermenter without any yeast in it though, in my mind it kind of defeats the purpose?
 

Nick JD

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I wouldn't be emptying that first cube into the fermenter without any yeast in it though, in my mind it kind of defeats the purpose?
+1

I wouldn't be letting in any air to a wort at pitchable temperature without following it with a healthy innoculation of yeast.

Aerating without <0.5 micron filtration air is essentially a bacterial/wild yeast innoculation.
 

srcossens

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@SJW - i see no reason why you can't pitch lager yeast and then aerate again the next morning. The more O2 you can dissolve in your wort before and during the growth phase of yeast the better.
I did exactly this on a Munich Dunkel about a month ago. For lagers, I normally pitch a 4ltr starter in to 23ltrs of wort, but was pitching a 5ltr starter in to 46ltrs of wort, so was a bit worried that it wouldn't attenuate. I was also a bit heavy handed on the first fermenter, so the second one didn't get as much starter. I decided to add a bit more O2 after about 12hrs and they both attenuated to where I wanted them to. The hydrometer sample tasted fine when bottling a week ago.
 

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