Different wort aeration kits

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Get it in writing.

Seriously, I'm not just being curmudgeonly: if you don't want to void your insurance, get it in writing.

 

[Crusty]

Get it in writing.

Seriously, I'm not just being curmudgeonly: if you don't want to void your insurance, get it in writing.

I appreciate your concerns but I'm satisfied that there's no issue whatsoever after speaking with Mitch.
I explained exactly what I was doing & he confirmed the regulator is fine to use. They do sell the Bossgas disposable cylinder regulators which is the setup in question. The regulator is well within the specs for using it with the disposable cylinders so again, it's fine to use. There is no danger of explosion or anything else oxygenating your wort unless you decide to light up a ciggy whilst waiving the oxygen wand around.
I don't think the setup that Brewman sells has got the use no oil on the gauge either.

 

[SBOB]

I don't think the setup that Brewman sells has got the use no oil on the gauge either.

i don't think any regulator aimed at disposables would

The company sells the regs with their own o2 bottles.. thats good enough for me (and likely any insurance company issues or law suits that may arise)

 

[Crusty]

i don't think any regulator aimed at disposables would

The company sells the regs with their own o2 bottles.. thats good enough for me (and likely any insurance company issues or law suits that may arise)

Yeah, I couldn't find any disposable regulators that had it either.
I have no hesitation at all using mine. It works perfectly & I'm looking forward to swinging it into action on my next brew day.

 

[Rambo]

Gee, this all escalated quickly. Thanks for the input everyone, I'm glad the question was asked.

 

[SBOB]

nothing like some constructive posts... beats arguing about climate change

 

[rude]

Im going to take my time on this one its one bonus of being poor

Might save up for well lets say a safer option but will do a lot of reading first

Thanks for highlighting you're concerns Ben

 

[Benn]

Using equipment not designed for O2 on pressurised O2 is a real safety problem: things that you think of as inert, like oil or the rubber gaskets in the regulator, become very flammable in pressurised O2. Ignition can be provided by a static discharge from dry gas.

LC's post is pretty much it in a nutshell.

Here's a really short clip to illustrate,
http://youtu.be/SaBghGKAOBo
"Particles" can be as benign as dust contaminants from poor storage of the regulator between cylinder swaps etc.

Here's another short clip that's worth a watch,
http://youtu.be/9lw_fhNAIQc

If the reg is designed for use with "100%" oxygen then one would assume that the regulator body, internal seals and lubricants would have to be oxygen compatible which would appear to be the case with Crusty's reg going on the advice given by the supplier. An LPG or Co2 reg with some sort of adapter... Not so much

I'm all for backyard ingenuity and my previous post was definitely not intended to Nannify anybody's choice on how they administer oxygen to their wort, more a highlighting of the potential risks involved with using oxygen. Most people I'd assume know the basics but if you don't then have a quick google sesh and draw your own conclusions based on your equipment.
Cheers,

 

[Danscraftbeer]

^^ Holy fark! I'm glad I stick to normal procedures and trusted recommendations.

I'll post it again (edited for diplomacy)

My O2 rig. ~$440 total to set up. Probably last the rest of your brewing life maybe. Or Swap and go is ~$70. It will last long time if you are in it for long time. Or you can get your $200 down payment back if you give up brewing and give the bottle back.

The disconnect is the way I pump it into my kegmenter rather than an air stone. Or you could just use an airstone. I pump in o2 to 5 to 10 psi then lay keg on its side and rock and roll the sealed kegmenter for at least 1 minute, 4 minutes for the exercise.
Then sit in temp control at set pressure relief valve to 5psi for most of the ferment.
My theory is that the brew will take up the o2 it needs at the early stage then will purge the oxygen when the ferment releases Co2.

PS.
Tank from your local hardware stores etc (Bunnings). Oxygen Regulator from Total Tools or other options etc. Post Hoses and disconnects from your home brew store.

 

[Rambo]

I for one appreciated your earlier post highlighting the potential dangers, along with the discussion that followed. I'm certainly much more informed than I was this morning. From crustys call to the supplier I feel the system will be safe, but will certainly do some more research when I get the time.

 

[Crusty]

Ive just rang Dynaweld regarding the said setup & another confirmation that the Bossgas regulator is perfectly fine to use with the disposable oxygen cylinders. I don't need any more convincing than that. Its perfectly safe according to the Australian wholesaler of these regulators.

 

[MHB]

Interesting Vids
I'm driving past my local BOC later, well see if they still have the exploded cylinder on display.

Sounds like spending an extra $50 or so to get a system that is really high quality and made entirely form O2 safe products is pretty cheap life insurance.
Mind you for some the $50 is more important - but they probably fart in falsetto!
Mark

 

[MHB]

Been Done
Mark

 

[SBOB]

Sounds like spending an extra $50 or so to get a system that is really high quality and made entirely form O2 safe products is pretty cheap life insurance.

but then you're making the assumption that the regulator we are talking about isn't o2 safe, which has been proven not to be the case..

I'm all for people buying Brewman/your setup and supporting the homebrew store, but I didn't as I had left over bunnings vouchers for xmas to get rid of and an ebay promo code to use up (so it ended up 'costing' me about $40 to setup)

But saying that a setup such as that is 'safer' than buying the bits individually isn't necessarily the case... these portable o2 setups aren't rocket science..

 

[SBOB]

Ive just rang Dynaweld regarding the said setup & another confirmation that the Bossgas regulator is perfectly fine to use with the disposable oxygen cylinders. I don't need any more convincing than that. Its perfectly safe according to the Australian wholesaler of these regulators.

indeed...
I'm not sure why people would assume that a company that sells portable gas tanks + regulators would (for some reason) decide to sell a regulator that is 'unsafe' to use with one of the range of tanks they sell

 

[MHB]

I really don't give a... what people buy. I have no vested interest in the matter, I do recall however how much care was taken when the system now sold by Brewman was put together. This might be hard to believe but there was next to no profit in selling the system, the return came from having brewers making better beer - I think Steve understands the value of this; see the sale of Handbook of basic brewing calculations - sold at cost (or less) for the same reasons.

As in all things, times change there are lots more options available, some are no doubt good some seriously scary, just take the time and make the effort to be sure that you are making safe choices, look at the build quality, the on-going costs...
Quality products that last and give years of reliable service are often cheaper in the long run than is the system with the lowest up front cost. All I want to get across is that its worth taking the time to evaluate all the variables properly , not just to reflexively go for the low price option - in all fairness that's a pretty common response on AHB.

 

[Zorco]

Quality products that last and give years of reliable service are often cheaper in the long run than is the system with the lowest up front cost. .

I've found this to be nearly always true.

Cars, shoes, clothes, tools, books; my kids' bike helmets cost $130 each.

Nana taught me this; it started with shoes.

This type of life is only compatible with someone who takes care of their stuff.. And themselves.

 

[Crusty]

I really don't give a... what people buy. I have no vested interest in the matter

Maybe not but why would you think spending an extra $50.00 on your ex setup makes it higher quality with O2 safe components compared to the Bossgas regulator. The fact of the matter is the Bossgas regulator is totally safe to use & has O2 safe components, just like the Brewman setup. There's no way on earth I'd spend less money & compromise safety for any amount of money. I don't want to blow myself or the kids up by compromising on equipment, it's just not going to happen. So whichever way potential buyers wish to proceed, both setups are safe to use with compressed oxygen cylinders. I did look at the Brewman setup which looks really good but went with the Bossgas regulator simply because it has a L/min gauge. The advantage of the Brewman setup is it will tell you how much gas you have left in the cylinder. The advantage of my setup is the L/min gauge. My oxygen cylinder holds 110L of oxygen & if I use 2L per min for 60sec, It's quite easy to work out that I'll get roughly 55 uses from the cylinder. Didn't the cylinder explode because the wanker loosened the regulator?

 

[MHB]

Couple of points
Apparently you are reading a bit more into what I said than I believe was there. I know precisely what is in the kit I designed and why each choice was made (and yes there were cheaper alternatives). I haven't done the in-depth research into each and every "new" option that has come onto the market since - no longer in the trade so to speak. That said when I was doing the design work there was more than one option, the system I designed was the best balance of quality, reliability and value I could put together, with safety being a major concern.
If you haven't or aren't willing to take the time to make a similar effort, my point is that up front price alone is a very poor criteria on which to base a decision, to have the work done for you is I believe of value. If you don't agree you will make your choices accordingly and take responsibility for the outcomes.

Note that the supplier of the O2 bottle and regulator, in the kit I designed sell a large range of other gasses in disposable bottles, all the rest of the range have a different thread/regulator to prevent dumb mistakes (idiot proofing?)
The Bossgas regulator (assurances by the retailer aside) is listed by the manufacturer (RocFly Shanghai) as a Argon/CO2 regulator with no mention of O2 compatibility.

The other point is that the everything else being equal the diameter of the diaphragm in a regulator is really one of the critical determiners of the regulators accuracy and life expectancy. When the diaphragm goes not only will it (or the whole regulator) need replacing, you will almost certainly loose the contents of the bottle.
Sometimes size matters and one is nearly twice the size of the other - you guess which is which.

I wish you luck with your purchase, but there are real differenced between the various offerings and very good reasons why the prices are different.
And don't some of you guys amp up when anyone suggests that being a tight arse isn't of necessity an unqualified virtue.

Make your own decisions but make sure they are informed decisions that take all the factors into account, not just price - which is what I said in the first place...
Mark

 

[Crusty]

Point taken & I know that you did your homework regarding build quality, safety & price when putting together the now Brewman oxygenation kits.
I don't dispute for one minute about their quality as I'm certain they are a great piece of kit. The cheaper, smaller diaphragm Bossgas regulators are in fact designed & compatible with pressurized cylinders, including oxygen, so I have no hesitation in using one for this purpose. Both retailers, one of which is the Australian distributor for Bossgas, made it quite clear to never weld with this regulator & the diaphragm did get a mention as to not being adequate for flame & could result in a flashback to the cylinder causing an explosion. As we are not doing that & simply supplying oxygen to our wort, there is no such danger & the diaphragm issue is non existent for our purposes. I have also been informed that the regulators are very reliable & will last many, many years as a lot of tradies use this exact kit for mobile onsite applications. The Brewman setup may well be a better quality unit but I'm more than happy with my setup with the L/min gauge & have no hesitation using it. The fact is it's perfectly safe to use with the disposable oxygen cylinders which is all I'm concerned about.