Different wort aeration kits

[Coldspace]

There's a cheap gaugeless 02 setup for $59 on the homebrewerswarehouse.com.au site. Looks like the ones sold in the USA. Brass reg,line and airstone.

Not sure id go that cheap, I like the fact my reg has ltr flow rate. I'm happy with the info Crusty has provided from the suppliers .

I work with oxy welding gear on our job sites all the time. ( frigie/electrician) and the way our gear gets dirty ,nocked around and ****, some guys just throw them in back of utes, damaged gauges lines, look at all the gear in back of some guys utes and vans next time out on the road. I've never seen an instance happen over 25 years in the trade. Touch wood...

I'd be more worried guys about the risk of electrocution from some of the Things people do in this world when it comes to do with electricity and Do it yourself wiring. Something's I've seen on here with electricity has made me cringe a little .especially when water and wort are around, ghetto set ups etc.

I've taken and acknowledged MHB concerns, and have made my own personal informed decision based on info here and my own real world experience with these gases.

Pity about personal attacks, let's keep real discussion going and no gutter talk, positive thoughts and productive research is what we are here for..

I think this setup that crusty and I use will be safe in bubbling some thru wort for 1 min. Disconnect, and keep clean somewhere.

Just use sensible approach with this gear, not like I've seen on the many job sites over the years.

 

[manticle]

You're right on one hand - forum owners and staff need to ensure the advice provided is as safe as possible. The info provided by bossweld/dynaweld is ambiguous - an o2 bottle is pictured among their disposable range (no I wouldn't tig/mig weld with it) so I will do some more checking.

My main point is that if Crusty is wrong, that makes him ill advised. He has attempted to check, several times and the duty of care of the sales rep/supplier is at least as serious as mine. If he is ill advised that's one thing but your post was playing the man rather than the ball.

I admit a lot of sales reps have no real idea about their product so I'll try and find better quality info about this specific part and its implied use with the specific o2 disposable bottle pictured on the site.
If it is unsuitable then the bossweld website needs to be more clear.

 

[Coldspace]

I also think, if it was a Major concern then they would not allow this type of thread to match up the reg thread. Similar to left hand thread with LPG.

Safety standards evolve over time, but this ATM I think is OK, compared to something's I've seen go on in industry.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Zorco]

DISPOSABLE:
BS EN 12205: Transportable gas cylinders. Non-refillable metallic gas cylinders
EN ISO 13340: Transportable gas cylinders -- Cylinders valves for non-refillable cylinders
BS EN 1326: Gas welding equipment. Small kits for gas brazing and welding

REFILLABLE:
AS 2030 Gas Cylinders
AS 4267 Pressure regulators for use with industrial compressed gas cylinders
AS 4706 Pressure gauges for regulators used with compressed gas cylinders


So, this is where I'm up to. The top set of standards are the framework for acceptance of disposable O2 gear within Australia. There is probably a better one for gauges and regulators for non-refillable cylinders. Still looking.

What is the Australian Government body who oversees gas safety in Aus?

 

[Zorco]

OK,

back onto the Bossgas solution

MHB indicated that the BossGas regulator was from rockfly. Below is their Alibaba search url. You can see that in nearly all cases the oxygen compatible are specifically mentioned.
https://rocfly.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-219216626-3/Gas_Regulator_and_Flowmeter.html?isGallery=Y


Edit: Upon looking into the details, I've seen that RockFly have even used the model number that BossGas have adopted (unoriginal f&cks)
https://rocfly.en.alibaba.com/product/60459107929-219216626/Disposable_Mini_Gas_Bottle_Regulator_Without_Gauge.html

• Part No.: 600043

The ones that appear to be those the BossGas use, image below from BossGas site, seem to match perfectly. There is an inconsistency here.

Without any direct references to the standards I've listed above (or better) it is right to conclude that the BossGas regulators are not rated of O2 and should be overlooked.

MHB and anyone would be well within their remit to lodge a complaint.

AHB users should avoid this product.


MHB is a here......but as I've said before..... he is rarely wrong and I respect that indeed.

I believe Mark actually gives a damn. The brewing community needs a mate like Mark. Even if he plays the man and not the ball sometimes. (That's what you meant Manticle? )

 

[sp0rk]

The supplier of the regulator doesn't even stock O2. That the Regulator can be fitted to another manufacturers product doesn't mean it should be.
In the eBay link Crusty posted # 131 "Bob the Welder" as the supplier the regulator is listed as suitable for MIG TIG - as someone who can weld I'm sure you know you don't use O2 in either.

At times (mostly with stainless) you can use small amounts of O2 in MIG welding to improve arc stability and fluidity...

 

[mstrelan]

I might one day upgrade to a more commercial type setup like the Cigweld regulator I linked too several posts back & a full size O2 cylinder ...

Did I hear someone say "bulk buy"?

 

[technobabble66]

If only we knew someone who regularly ran bulk buys in Melbourne...

 

[SBOB]

The ones that appear to be those the BossGas use, image below from BossGas site, seem to match perfectly. There is an inconsistency here.

Without any direct references to the standards I've listed above (or better) it is right to conclude that the BossGas regulators are not rated of O2 and should be overlooked.

or, if we follow the standard that it does show

• EN562 - > "BS EN 562:2003 - Gas welding equipment. Pressure gauges used in welding, cutting and allied processes"

This standard includes oxygen in its details

This standard has been deprecated and replaced by

• EN5171 0 - > "BS EN ISO 5171:2010 - Gas welding equipment. Pressure gauges used in welding, cutting and allied processes"

This standard also includes oxygen'

I dont have access to ISO standards, but that regulator would indicate it adheres to 'some' international ISO standard and I can find plenty of oxygen regulators which adhere to the 2003 EN562 standard

 

[MHB]

Just spoke to the guys at Dynaweld - they have discontinued their O2 bottles.
Their range is correct as per the website the catalogue is out of date.

Conclusion
The regulator is specifically listed and described as a CO2, Argon, Inert Gas regulator.
The regulator supplier doesn't have/stock an O2 bottle that fits the Regulator.
Fitting some other manufactures (i.e. Tradeflame) Oxygen bottle to it , is at best problematic. A conversation with Companion products this morning reveals that the only regulator they recommend for their O2 bottle is the one in the Oxypower Blowtorch Kit. That regulator isn't available separately, not even as a spare part.

I believe recommending this product breaches Forum Rule 4

Ok I admit saying Crusty is a tight arse may have been a little impolitic and if he has taken offence I apologise.
Hardly a vitriolic personal attack read posts #225-226
The reply was nice and not even a touch "personal".

You don't know me dickhead! Don't turn this into a personal attack arsehole, you'll lose big time.
I'm far from a tight arse & anyone that knows me will know your way off base.
I own a 50L Braumeister, I own a still that cost over $2,000.00 just for the bubble cap column.
I always buy the best equipment I can so it's not the cheapest that I settle for you idiot.

Moderate to your hearts content, but a hint of impartiality wouldn't go astray.
Mark

 

[manticle]

I'll clean the thread of personal stuff from both sides.

I will also do my best to make sure it is clear these regs are not appropriate for use with o2.

As suggested your research is appreciated by many -looks like crusty has been misled rather than just been tight.

More diplomacy on all fronts would be appreciated.

 

[SBOB]

or, if we follow the standard that it does show

• EN562 - > "BS EN 562:2003 - Gas welding equipment. Pressure gauges used in welding, cutting and allied processes"

This standard includes oxygen in its details

This standard has been deprecated and replaced by

• EN5171 0 - > "BS EN ISO 5171:2010 - Gas welding equipment. Pressure gauges used in welding, cutting and allied processes"

This standard also includes oxygen'

I dont have access to ISO standards, but that regulator would indicate it adheres to 'some' international ISO standard and I can find plenty of oxygen regulators which adhere to the 2003 EN562 standard

following this one step further

The 'regulator' in question (based on its stamp) adheres to
EN562.
This standard is deprecated and directly replaced by EN5171 (which 'should' mean any reg that adheres to EN562 and still sold adheres to EN5171)

EN5171 is a direct corelation to the ISO standard ISO 5171, which also happens to be the standard stamped on the Oxyturbo regulator used in the current setup developed by MHB and sold by Brewman

So to me, it would seem that both the 'ebay' reg and the 'Oxyturbo' reg adhere to essentially the same ISO/international standard number which is

• "ISO 5171:2009 - Gas welding equipment -- Pressure gauges used in welding, cutting and allied processes"

Anyone with access to EN562/EN5171 or ISO5171 standards want to pull out the relevant 'oxygen' bits to see if there are caveats that would exclude certain regulators with that standard marking from being applicable to oxygen (as the standard covers "use for dissolved acetylene and for liquefied gases under pressure", which includes oxygen)

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

I might one day upgrade to a more commercial type setup like the Cigweld regulator I linked too several posts back & a full size O2 cylinder

Did I hear someone say "bulk buy"?

If only we knew someone who regularly ran bulk buys in Melbourne...

I have a trade account with BOC / Cigweld; it doesn't seem to improve their prices. I believe you have to have an account with them to get a bottle swap, that would seem to limit the applicability of a group buy.

What might be worth doing is seeing if Keg King can source a stem to allow the use of their full scale reg on a mini O2 bottle, since their reg is obviously OK for oxygen.

 

[Crusty]

Just spoke to the guys at Dynaweld - they have discontinued their O2 bottles.
Their range is correct as per the website the catalogue is out of date.

Conclusion
The regulator is specifically listed and described as a CO2, Argon, Inert Gas regulator.
The regulator supplier doesn't have/stock an O2 bottle that fits the Regulator.
Fitting some other manufactures (i.e. Tradeflame) Oxygen bottle to it , is at best problematic. A conversation with Companion products this morning reveals that the only regulator they recommend for their O2 bottle is the one in the Oxypower Blowtorch Kit. That regulator isn't available separately, not even as a spare part.

I believe recommending this product breaches Forum Rule 4

Ok I admit saying Crusty is a tight arse may have been a little impolitic and if he has taken offence I apologise.
Hardly a vitriolic personal attack read posts #225-226
The reply was nice and not even a touch "personal".

You don't know me dickhead! Don't turn this into a personal attack arsehole, you'll lose big time.
I'm far from a tight arse & anyone that knows me will know your way off base.
I own a 50L Braumeister, I own a still that cost over $2,000.00 just for the bubble cap column.
I always buy the best equipment I can so it's not the cheapest that I settle for you idiot.

Moderate to your hearts content, but a hint of impartiality wouldn't go astray.
Mark

I would also like to apologize for my heated reaction to what I did take as offensive behavior.
No matter how many times you try to give advice nicely, as you put it, there's no need to get personal & it was personal.
What you may or may not be informing Companion is your intentions for the use of the setup.
Did you say that you have no intentions of doing any welding with it & you are simply adding oxygen to your wort?
When people don't have all the required information needed, they tend to make assumptions & this may or may not be the case.
As before, people are well enough informed by now so they can take it or leave it, it's entirely up to them. I'm comfortable that it's a non safety issue as advised by all that I've spoken too & I'm not hesitant about using it. If it does blow up one day & I survive, I'm happy to concede & eat humble pie & will let everyone else know of the outcome. Then I will write a detailed apology together with a thank you card for telling me so.

 

[sp0rk]

I have a trade account with BOC / Cigweld if that's any use. Doesn't seem to change their prices FWIW.

I've looked into this too, I work in a large animal hospital and we use a LOT of oxygen
Wouldn't really be any cheaper for me to go through work or start up my own account

Looks like I might just grab a Brewman kit at some point

 

[Crusty]

I've looked into this too, I work in a large animal hospital and we use a LOT of oxygen
Wouldn't really be any cheaper for me to go through work or start up my own account

BOC are way too expensive.
Bunnings have a pretty good setup if you want to go that way. I might adopt this approach myself if I have any reservations down the track.

Cigweld cutskill oxygen regulator

$200.00 down payment for the cylinder, refundable when returned & $69.00 for a full D-size cylinder

Coregas trade & go

I'm certain this setup meets all the required standards.

 

[manticle]

I have pruned the thread. Anyone who has had a post hidden that they believe adds value to the thread and avoids insulting other members, please PM me with reasons for reinstating it.
In a couple of instances, I've edited posts to remove personal attacks (can't recover the edited stuff even if I wanted to) but most posts are hidden (not deleted).

I'll continue to check out the for and against arguments for the bossweld regulator but once convinced of the safe and legal way to proceed, I may need to edit anything recommending its use in this regard. In the meantime thanks to zorco, MHB, SBOB and Crusty all for endeavouring to check, even if there's been disagreement on the outcome and please all stay civil and alive while I work through it.

 

[Crusty]

I don't want anyone to get hurt using something that's not suitable & if I was told, from what I believe as reputable & well experienced people, that the setup was dangerous, I'd be the first to let everyone know & I'd have no hesitation in tossing it in the bin. If this gets proven to be the case, then that's where it will go.
The MHB/Brewman regulator does have the added safety features & compliance checks according to Mark & Brewman so by all means, if you feel more comfortable using that setup, go for it. I have no doubt it's a quality unit & as I said before, I was going to purchase one from Brewman but I wanted a L/min gauge which is why I went with the Bossgas reg. I have no reservations using mine at this stage & will continue to do so unless someone can get more detailed info on the advice to not use it with oxygen. All that I've spoken to that sell & use them on a regular basis have had no issues nor do they expect any such dangers to occur. This in itself was conclusive enough for me & I can envision no danger whatsoever running O2 into my wort using this setup from that advice.
If it's deemed & proven to be a high risk setup, I'm getting my squeaky arse off to Bunnings. ( comedy Mark right there )

 

[droid]

things have worked out ok, good stuff, could have been worse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgSpslkKlgM

 

[sp0rk]

BOC are way too expensive.
Bunnings have a pretty good setup if you want to go that way. I might adopt this approach myself if I have any reservations down the track.

Cigweld cutskill oxygen regulator

$200.00 down payment for the cylinder, refundable when returned & $69.00 for a full D-size cylinder

Coregas trade & go

I'm certain this setup meets all the required standards.

I think this is how I'll go, just need to convince Mrs sp0rk it's "needed"
Also wanting an argon cylinder for the TIG welder I'm about to buy, with how little I'll be using it, renting will be a waste of money
Here's hoping Singleton Bunnings does both cylinders