Dedicated Herms Guide, Problems And Solution Thread

[Moad]

Sorry I meant that figure of 1 degree per minute that gets thrown around. I always thought it was to stop denaturing of enzymes or something but then HERMS designs run a large differential so in the time the mash liquor gets through the hex coil it could potentially jump 4 or 5 degrees in one pass.

And the more detail the better mate, I am probably being a pain in the ass with the questions but I've dumped alot of coin into the build and am a little nervous about how it will all run. I'm feeling a bit more confident now though, I'd say 50ft of coil will give me a good heat transfer, heating with 8kw should be no issue and a flow rate of 6L/min should all result in ramping to mash out in half an hour or so. I generally don't do step mashes so its really only from 65-67 ramping to 76.

 

[malt junkie]

Consider a standard single batch, with a hermit on something like Camo6's system his recirc would be around 7-8LPM with liquor to grits ratio of 3.5-4L/kg. You've got 20L of liquid. If the hex is powered sufficiently the exit temp should be at target from the get go. So a 7 deg step @ 1Deg/min would have the liquor turned over the tun 2 and a half times. I dare say on those numbers you'd be more like 1.2 - 1.5 Deg/min.

Now double batch that with the same 7 Deg step and your better than 1Deg/min goes out the window but not significantly, step done in around 10mins.

ED: I did think of another way to increase flow: Run two coils in parallel

 

[mofox1]

Sorry I meant that figure of 1 degree per minute that gets thrown around. I always thought it was to stop denaturing of enzymes or something but then HERMS designs run a large differential so in the time the mash liquor gets through the hex coil it could potentially jump 4 or 5 degrees in one pass.

Ah - I get ya now (eventually). I'd mash in at 65 if I could, but it's resulted in dough balls a few times, never had it mashing in with 50 - 55 deg water. So I'm not really interested in the temps between 55 and 65, just want it up there ASAP. For any steps after that, the HLT will ramp at ~1 deg/min with the coil out matching the HLT, and the mash tun outlet following about 10mins after (or whatever the full mash volume recirc time + a bit equals).

And the more detail the better mate, I am probably being a pain in the ass with the questions but I've dumped alot of coin into the build and am a little nervous about how it will all run.

PS - we don't talk about the war. They might be looking... h34r:

 

[Moad]

Awesome, so theoretically on my system:

180L can be heated 10 degrees in approximately 15 minutes and I can also turn the entire mash over in 15 minutes so the max time to get the mash up the 10 degrees would be 30 minutes but more likely less than that. I'm fine if that is the case in reality.

Still though I can't find much info on the 1 degree/min ramp rate, more than that apparently denatures enzymes. So does that mean you are denaturing when you are turning your mash from 55-65 in a pass through the coil?

 

[malt junkie]

Interesting question, my feel would be no, at mash in your taking those same enzimes from 20c to 55, or in my case 65, MHB would be the man to ask though.

 

[mofox1]

Awesome, so theoretically on my system:

180L can be heated 10 degrees in approximately 15 minutes and I can also turn the entire mash over in 15 minutes so the max time to get the mash up the 10 degrees would be 30 minutes but more likely less than that. I'm fine if that is the case in reality.

Still though I can't find much info on the 1 degree/min ramp rate, more than that apparently denatures enzymes. So does that mean you are denaturing when you are turning your mash from 55-65 in a pass through the coil?

A prolonged step at 50 - 55 is used for a protein rest. When using normal (fully modified) malts I *dont* want to stay there for a prolonged time, so denature away...

 

[Moad]

Yeah valid point about 20 to 55/65. Obviously it works for Herms brewers so perhaps a non issue. Research required...

I'll report back once the electrical stuff is done and I can run some tests

 

[malt junkie]

Well after a lot of discussion, enlightenment, research, and realisation some of which took place here. The flow rate issue has if not been resolve then the root cause found.
So to start Chugger, March and I believe KK pumps are all designed to be dual frequency 50hz/60hz 240v pumps able to operate both here and the US. Unfortunately the rotational speed of the pump is directly affected by the frequency. At zero head; the 20% more power our northern cousins have makes only a minor difference, however as head increases so does the gap between the 50hz and 60hz curves.
Chugger only show one curve for their pump; the 60hz. Luckily March show both, note the max flow rate( even at 50hz) for this pump at zero is higher than the Chugger but has the same head @ 50hz. On the march 50hz have a look where the 6LM mark it's fairly close to 4m (13ft) head; now check the chugger graph for flow rate at 13ft Which is 3.5gmp or 13LMP. That 10hz difference is costing Aussie brewers everywhere half the designed flow rate.

Changing or converting frequencies is discussed in my first link so I won't delve any deeper.

But I didn't give up and I did find a solution or two.

A few years back Qldkev did some running around and we had a bulk buy run on the MP 15RM @50hz 16LPM 2.4m (I believe this is the rebranded KK grey pump)

Kev also Grabbed a more powerful pump, though it had 3/4 thread so not many takers that was the MP 20RM@50hz 27LPM 3.1m


I went for a look about and found bigger again though with 1" thread MP 55RM@50hz 60LPM 5.6m

Further search had me looking at a 24v DC pump with a SS head that looks like it had been rip off the chugger. The best bit 24DC is 24DC anywhere the other thing is the graph is lineal Topsflo TD5-A24-2705-P/AU 24v @ 1.4A 35w 27LPM 5m


*flow rates quoted are max flow at zero head
* Meters quoted are max head
# Note to Keg King or vendors there of: if what I have stated here is incorrect please direct me to the Manufacturers web site with the correct detail.

I'm sure if a BB were started for either of the linked items those prices would change some what, eg the topsflo can be had for US$87 a piece (min order 500)

ED:TYpung

 

[zeggie]

Hey guys, I'm helping build a new 200l 3V rig.

I've previously used a Hermit coil with great results on an old 80l 3V.
https://onlinebrewingsupplies.com/herm-itr-heat-exchange/herm-itr-2-4kw-hx-heat-exchange-full-kit

For 200L will a Hermit coil full kit be big enough?
Or should I go 25' or 50' s/s coil in the HLT like everyone in the states do?

Only doing a single step mash with a mash out and batch sparge. If need be I can use coil and HLT to keep a constant temp and batch sparge with mash out temp.

Cheers

 

[Moad]

I'm running 50ft stainless in HLT for 120L rig and testing indicates 1.5 degrees per minute ramping.

Without reading back through the whole thread,what differential are people seeing between hex outlet and mash run probe. I'm seeing 2 degree difference, the my never catches up. I expected .5-1 degree difference not 2.

Should I be bumping temp at hex up by the 2 degrees or should I only let it get to my desired mash temp regardless of losses in the bed.

I don't want to insulate the MT and hide all that sexy stainless

 

[mrillies]

This thread has so much good information, i highly recommend reading as much as you can. However here is some of the nuggets i have extracted from it.

WHY USE SEPARATE HEX
Separate HEX is possible more common in Aus due to our stadard plugs and wiring. UK has 240V16A, US has 120V 20A commonly paired to 240V 20A etc etc. We have a pissy 2400W as standard. A couple of people who questioned why use a HEX have admited to having 4-5000W or more available.

To decide on a HEX vs HLT coil you need to work backward.
1. What is your total energy available
2. What size mash do you want
3. What ramp speed do you want
Remember, The HEX/HLT output will get to set point long before the mash does. Our ramp time is taken from when the HEX output starts to move until temp exiting MLT hits set point.

To achevice 1degC/min* for various volumes of HEX + Mash assuming 85% efficency
2400W - 30L,
3600W - 44L
4800W - 59L
5500W - 67L, etc

For example, a 2400W with a 5L Hex could theroetically heat 25L in a MLT @ 1degC/min
Thermal mass of the grain obviously effects this.
That same 2400W would heat 25L in the HLT and 25L in the mash around 0.6degC/min

Small HEX equals less total volume to heat for a given Mash.
If you have sufficient Wattage to heat the HLT and MLT at the same time, do it and skip the HEX.


COMMON HEX/HLT SETUP
Once youve chosen your method size (3L Pot or full HLT are common),
put enough copper/SS to transfer the energy being produced.

Small Hex
3-4m is enough to remove 2.4-3.6kW from a 2-4L pot.
This works as the HEX temp will be much hotter than set point.
The element will be controlled by the wort temp exiting the HEX.
This setup is stable (low overshoot) when the coil volume and HEX pot volume are as close as possible
ie Cram as much copper in the pot as you can.

Coil in HLT ( Much more detail elsewhere)
15m+ in a HLT should see the output match the HLT temp.
This length is required as the HLT will only be the same or slightly higher than the required set point

Counter Flow Exchanger CFX
A third way is a Counter flow exchanger, often used as a chiller (CFC)
Cycle the Mash through the inner coil and HLT hot water through the outer
Like the HEX, the temp in the HLT can be hotter than set point without scalding wort, the wort temp exiting can be controlled by amount of Hot water flow through the CFX.

All of these work better when as much as possible is insulated, any lost heat is a loss in efficency.

MY SETUP

I can use both a HEX and CFX and both work for 1 deg/min temp rises using a single 2400W element for a 20-25L mash.
The current experiment is to quickly brew ~40L by leveraging both
Basically the idea is to have the 2400W element on all the time, storing heat in the HLT while the MLT is at set point.

Process
During a rest,
1. wort is pumped through a 3m coil in a 3L HEX. The HEX element cycles on a little to maintain the output temp.
2. The HLT is set to 95 deg. The ouput electronics logic lets only one SSR come on at a time,
any moment the HEX is not on, heat is applied to the HLT

When its time to step,
1. MLT pump is routed half through the hex and half through the CFX internal coil.
2. The HEX set point is raised and the element comes on full, stopping the HLT element.
3. The HLT water is pumped through the CFX outer coil, heating the wort.
4. When the HLT temp drops to same as the MLT temp, isolate the CFX and the HEX finishes off the work.

Early testing of the procedure is very tasty, i mean promising

 

[pist]

Looking at adding a herms to my BIAB setup for a couple of reasons.

First, its a major PITA to step mash on gas, easy to overshoot your target temp for the next step if your not watching like a hawk

Second, I want to go electric as gas usage with my nasa is ridiculous. I have limited power available though. Calcs ive looked at, suggest I would need at least 4800W to be able to ramp at an acceptable rate. Both circuits I have won't support this and not possible to get one installed as I am renting. After a lot of reading, it would seem herms could possibly let me get away with potentially halving this requirement.

Total noob at all this though,so have a few questions.

My typical mash vol is around 80L, full volume double batch BIAB. What size HLT would I be looking at to fire this setup?

What Length coil would I be looking at?

Is it possible to use a temperature controller to control it all, or do I need to look at going to a PID?

What size element would be appropriate?

I will probably go for the silver kk mag drive pump they look like they would do the job.

Things I already have at my disposal I could repurpose for this to keep cost down:

14L exposed element urn
30L aluminium stock pot
50L Keggle that's already got a ball valve welded in (Previous single batch rig)
2x 1m lengths of silicone hose.

Would like to ramp as quick as possible

cheers for the help, head is spinning trying to work out where to start.

 

[pist]

It would seem ive overlooked firing the kettle for the boil not really going to be that helpful/beneficial after all is it

 

[Thefatdoghead]

MB-squared

Ill be getting a bcs soon and could you elaborate a bit more on how you set up your HLT and Mash temp?
How does your HLT temp not overshoot your mash temp etc?

I've never used that calculator but here's my real-world experience. I fill up my HLT with ~40L of cold water (I've been told to never use hot tap water!) and my MT with 30L of cold water. I turn on both the water and wort pumps as well as the 5.5kw element in the HLT. Actually, I start the "get mash-in temp" function on my BCS. I then turn around, weigh out my grain, mill my grain and measure out my salt and acid additions. Right about the time I finish up those chores, the BCS starts dinging, letting me know that my MT is up to temp.** I'd say it takes somewhere between 30 and 40 minutes.

**Moad, note that I set up the BCS to cycle the element on/off based on the temp probe at the HLT-out valve, but the "get mash temp" process doesn't exit until the temp probe in the MT has reached my desired 'mash in' temp. Again, that's ~15 minutes after the HLT has reached my desired temp.

 

[mb-squared]

Hi gavin8019, I think it will be easier to understand once you get your BCS. With the BCS, each stage of your brew day is broken down into a "process" (e.g. "get mash-in temp", "protein rest", "saccharification" etc.). A process terminates after a specified time or temp has been reached. On my system, I have a temp probe on my HLT and one on my Mash Tun; I have an electric element in my HLT. The "get mash-in temp" process heats the HLT until the HLT temp probe reaches the specified temp but that process does not terminate until the Mash Tun temp probe reaches the specified temp. So no overheating -- must maintains the mash-in temp in the HLT until the Mash Tun is ready. Does that make sense?

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Well after a lot of discussion, enlightenment, research, and realisation some of which took place here. The flow rate issue has if not been resolve then the root cause found.
So to start Chugger, March and I believe KK pumps are all designed to be dual frequency 50hz/60hz 240v pumps able to operate both here and the US. Unfortunately the rotational speed of the pump is directly affected by the frequency. At zero head; the 20% more power our northern cousins have makes only a minor difference, however as head increases so does the gap between the 50hz and 60hz curves.
Chugger only show one curve for their pump; the 60hz. Luckily March show both, note the max flow rate( even at 50hz) for this pump at zero is higher than the Chugger but has the same head @ 50hz. On the march 50hz have a look where the 6LM mark it's fairly close to 4m (13ft) head; now check the chugger graph for flow rate at 13ft Which is 3.5gmp or 13LMP. That 10hz difference is costing Aussie brewers everywhere half the designed flow rate.

Changing or converting frequencies is discussed in my first link so I won't delve any deeper.

But I didn't give up and I did find a solution or two.

A few years back Qldkev did some running around and we had a bulk buy run on the MP 15RM @50hz 16LPM 2.4m (I believe this is the rebranded KK grey pump)

Kev also Grabbed a more powerful pump, though it had 3/4 thread so not many takers that was the MP 20RM@50hz 27LPM 3.1m


I went for a look about and found bigger again though with 1" thread MP 55RM@50hz 60LPM 5.6m

Further search had me looking at a 24v DC pump with a SS head that looks like it had been rip off the chugger. The best bit 24DC is 24DC anywhere the other thing is the graph is lineal Topsflo TD5-A24-2705-P/AU 24v @ 1.4A 35w 27LPM 5m


*flow rates quoted are max flow at zero head
* Meters quoted are max head
# Note to Keg King or vendors there of: if what I have stated here is incorrect please direct me to the Manufacturers web site with the correct detail.

I'm sure if a BB were started for either of the linked items those prices would change some what, eg the topsflo can be had for US$87 a piece (min order 500)

ED:TYpung

Hey MJ, just did some research myself and found the same pump, in fact it's now sold by an aussie ebay supplier at similar price bracket to the Chugger and quoted as superior to the Chugger/March pumps because it is DC supply and therefore truly variable speed (although given the magnetic drive part I am unsure the merits of that statement.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Stainles...377180?hash=item25d9b60edc:g:9~8AAOSwMvtZUH1h

So.... has anyone actually tried one of these and can vouch for the performance etc?

 

[malt junkie]

Hey MJ, just did some research myself and found the same pump, in fact it's now sold by an aussie ebay supplier at similar price bracket to the Chugger and quoted as superior to the Chugger/March pumps because it is DC supply and therefore truly variable speed (although given the magnetic drive part I am unsure the merits of that statement.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Stainles...377180?hash=item25d9b60edc:g:9~8AAOSwMvtZUH1h

So.... has anyone actually tried one of these and can vouch for the performance etc?

I'm sure your aware of pump curves LPM vs Head, and indeed when graphed those figures for an AC pump create a curve. DC pumps are lineal, so a straight line from zero head high volume to max head and no volume.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Really? I have not seen a linear pump curve myself before, because the function that governs flow and pressure drop (head) is not a linear equation, so how is it different for DC simply due to the power supply aspect?

 

[TheWiggman]

Some solid Engrish in that eBay advert for a bushless pump.
I'm not sure of your explanation there MJ, the only difference between the DC and AC pump is the drive. It's still a centrifugal pump so will behave the same way, not a straight line as you imply. Adjusting the input speed however will allow control over the power (because, simply put, the faster the impeller spins the more pressure / flow) which is not as simple asn an AC drive in the domestic scale. Note however the quoted pump has a simple AC converter for power so you'd still need to buy some sort of PWM controller to adjust the speed.

 

[pirateagenda]

Anyone using their herms hex as an instant hot water heater for sparging?
I'm setting up a large 1V system (quad batch minimum) with a small volume hex, and am toying with the idea of running tap water directly through the hex to sparge. I have never bothered sparging in the past with double batches and have always had good efficiency, however I've been told I will need to for bigger batches.

 

[TheWiggman]

I use my HEx during the sparge. I'll set the HLT to 75°C and the HERMS to 80°C, plumbing the HLT through the HERMS. Due to the low flow by the time the water has made it to the mash tun it'll have lost a degree or two.
I wouldn't try to heat 10-25°C heat tap water to sparge temp in a single pass with a common 2.7m HERMS coil using water, you'll face a few issues with the biggest one likely to be boiling the HERMS water. It is doable, but there are a lot of variables to consider for it to function correctly and to avoid a dangerous situation.

 

[pirateagenda]

First trial with new hex setup that is approx 7L with 6m copper coil and a 2200W keg king element.

Don't have the controller hooked up yet, but got the HEX up to about 70C then started running cold tap water through it. Full speed on the pump it came out luke warm at the other end, when i choked the pump back to a drizzle it's coming out around 45. At full speed on the pump the hex is cooling, even though the element is on flat out.

Next test, bought the HEX to the boil and put 45C water though it. Again when its at full speed the HEX water is losing heat. The water coming out is too hot to hold my hand under but no where near boiling. Recirculating through the pump I've gained about 15C in 45 minutes for about 80L water.

So the problems I am encountering are:
- Big differential between HEX temp and liquid out of the HEX temp (more copper should solve this, but will make the 2nd problem worse?)
- HEX losing heat (more watts needed?)

Hopefully it will have enough guts to hold mash temp for a large batch as that is it's primary goal, however would be nice to be able to speed it up to heat strike water and sparge with. Reno'ing the house soon and i'm getting a new shed, so am going to put a lot of power down there!

 

[roller997]

First trial with new hex setup that is approx 7L with 6m copper coil and a 2200W keg king element.

Don't have the controller hooked up yet, but got the HEX up to about 70C then started running cold tap water through it. Full speed on the pump it came out luke warm at the other end, when i choked the pump back to a drizzle it's coming out around 45. At full speed on the pump the hex is cooling, even though the element is on flat out.

Next test, bought the HEX to the boil and put 45C water though it. Again when its at full speed the HEX water is losing heat. The water coming out is too hot to hold my hand under but no where near boiling. Recirculating through the pump I've gained about 15C in 45 minutes for about 80L water.

So the problems I am encountering are:
- Big differential between HEX temp and liquid out of the HEX temp (more copper should solve this, but will make the 2nd problem worse?)
- HEX losing heat (more watts needed?)

Hopefully it will have enough guts to hold mash temp for a large batch as that is it's primary goal, however would be nice to be able to speed it up to heat strike water and sparge with. Reno'ing the house soon and i'm getting a new shed, so am going to put a lot of power down there!

While a larger copper coil will get you warmer water exiting the HEX coil than the current coil, I am not sure if your element is going to keep up, especially if the difference in temperature is too much.
I did some testing a while ago and with a modern 2000W insulated kettle boiling about 1.9L of water from 19.3C to 100C took 6 minutes and 9 seconds.

For a 2200W element directly in the water I would expect that to be about 10% faster so I would assume it would still take around 5:20 to heat water up by 80 degrees.
That means to warm up 1.9L, for each minute it rises by about 15 degrees. So to increase your 80L by 15 degrees means it will take more than 42 minutes, assuming there is really good insulation and it ignores the thermal mass of the grain bed.

In the case above, when you mention a dribble, to get the 25 degree continuous gain in temperature increase you would have to run the water through at 1.1L per minute which would be quite slow. Any faster than that, even with a larger copper coil and you would only get 45 degrees for the initial water and it would cool down the HEX faster than the element could heat it.

I don't believe you will have issues maintaining the mash temperature if the mash tun is insulated but you might be better off to heat some sparge and strike water separately.

I used to run 2 * 2.4KW elements in a 4L double walled pot to get the HEX up to temp very quickly and HEX coil is stainless tubing (not as thermally conductive as copper) which is about 5 meter long.

It achieved the temperatures quite quickly but I didn't use it to heat the strike water or the sparge water. I used a separate hot liquor tun (Keg King 60L double walled urn) and once I had the mash at 78 degrees, I bumped up the two elements to just below boiling point to heat the wort as much as possible as it was pumped through the HEX to the kettle. The Kettle only had a 3600Watt element and it was insulated, which was enough for a rolling boil of the batches I made.

My setup was for up to a 80L wort, however most often I only made about 50L.

I hope it helps

Roller

 

[Hermies]

I have a little over 3mtr of copper in my 7.6 lt pot and I can raise the temp a degree a minute using a 2400W element . I do start with cold water which is around the 20*C mark and it takes around 45min to get up temp mash temp and I have no problems holding the temps . Mind you my probe is on the outlet side of the pot and I do run a PID .

 

[gibbocore]

Hey Folks, is been a while but I finally got my herms rig up and running, living in a one city terrace, most parts of my rig are multi use and able to be pulled down for storage, that being said it’s performing really well and I’m pretty happy with flows and temp control, I run a copper coil through an esky, I have a 3000w caravan/bath heater for big jumps and I use my ANOVA to maintain, it’s doing 10 minute steps, with insulated pvc hosing into an insulated keg tun with false bottom, it’s working well. I’m having trouble though with efficiency as I’m sitting at around 70%. I’m batch sparging for simplicity while I iron out my processes but have the vessels and tiers to fly sparge.

My questions, I’d like to know the best way to manage my water additions because I think I’m losing efficiency here, I’d like to know if there’s a direct correlation to water and potential sugar saturation, with my first batch I def had too much water and didn’t boil off as much as I predicted, about 4L off, so my gravity was light on. With my last batch I filed the water losses back in my equipment profile and ended up 3L short in the fermenter but still 2points under my predicted gravity (after recalculating the gravity to water).

So I guess my second question is, can you over dilute by sparging too much? Or if you know your boil off rate can you sparge at an optimum rate by batch or fly and not risk over dilution?

Last question, is the Craftbrewer generic crack the best for a herms recirculated rig with beer belly falsie? That’s another variable that I think is effecting my efficiency. Thanks all.

 

[Don]

Hey Folks, is been a while but I finally got my herms rig up and running, living in a one city terrace, most parts of my rig are multi use and able to be pulled down for storage, that being said it’s performing really well and I’m pretty happy with flows and temp control, I run a copper coil through an esky, I have a 3000w caravan/bath heater for big jumps and I use my ANOVA to maintain, it’s doing 10 minute steps, with insulated pvc hosing into an insulated keg tun with false bottom, it’s working well. I’m having trouble though with efficiency as I’m sitting at around 70%. I’m batch sparging for simplicity while I iron out my processes but have the vessels and tiers to fly sparge.

My questions, I’d like to know the best way to manage my water additions because I think I’m losing efficiency here, I’d like to know if there’s a direct correlation to water and potential sugar saturation, with my first batch I def had too much water and didn’t boil off as much as I predicted, about 4L off, so my gravity was light on. With my last batch I filed the water losses back in my equipment profile and ended up 3L short in the fermenter but still 2points under my predicted gravity (after recalculating the gravity to water).

So I guess my second question is, can you over dilute by sparging too much? Or if you know your boil off rate can you sparge at an optimum rate by batch or fly and not risk over dilution?

Last question, is the Craftbrewer generic crack the best for a herms recirculated rig with beer belly falsie? That’s another variable that I think is effecting my efficiency. Thanks all.

The answer is yes, each to their own but you should stop sparging around the 1.010 mark as a max cut off. If SG still too high directly add water to the boil without going through the grain bed. To help out with efficiency, little things like pumping some sparge water through the herms to regain those sugars out of the coil and lines there could 1/2 a liter to 1 liter in there. Investigate your grain crush. And definitely get into fly sparging, its slower and more evenly rinses the grain of sugars.

 

[gibbocore]

Thanks Don, thats reassuring, def keen to get going with fly sparging, need a better pickup tube in my kettle first.

When fly sparging do you start your sparge while draining off? Or do you fully drain the mash tun first?

 

[Don]

Thanks Don, thats reassuring, def keen to get going with fly sparging, need a better pickup tube in my kettle first.

When fly sparging do you start your sparge while draining off? Or do you fully drain the mash tun first?

You keep the water level an inch above the grain bed, as you fly sparge while draining into the boil at the same time. The idea here is to avoid compacting the grain bed by draining the water out or too fast and also maximizing all the sugars extracted. When you know your equipment you should be able to have a lot more sparge water in reserve and say you design 60 litres in the boil. You should be able to sparge until the SG hits no less then 1.010 and you should be smack on 60 litres, but you will still have an inch of water above the grain bed which is just water by this stage. It's a superior method then pouring water over the top and waiting for it to drain through the bed and wait for it to drip dry.
Also you know the saying "listen to everyone, follow no one" cheers.

 

[MontPel]

With fly sparging, once you reach your boil volume are you left with a mash tun full of liquid 1" above grain level? What do you do with the remaining low gravity liquid? Pour it down the drain?

 

[Don]

With fly sparging, once you reach your boil volume are you left with a mash tun full of liquid 1" above grain level? What do you do with the remaining low gravity liquid? Pour it down the drain?

Yes. Its no good. Just let it drain off in a bucket or sink and discard the grain. Remaining wort below 1.010 will be full of hash tannins.