Dedicated Grainfather Guide, Problems and Solutions Thread

[Gloveski]

I don't know how to work out what pre boil gravity should be.
I did take a reading though in anticipation of being asked this question.
In the end I was lucky to get about 17L in the fermenter with a OG of 1.068 which is a lot lower than the intended 1.075

Big key mate done two grainfather brews and will be looking at pre boil gravity as my finished OG and litres in fermenter were not what I expected . About to keg both tomorrow as finished cold crashing and just blew the last keg of K&K tonight ..............nice timing

 

[kaiserben]

I don't know how to work out what pre boil gravity should be.
I did take a reading though in anticipation of being asked this question.
In the end I was lucky to get about 17L in the fermenter with a OG of 1.068 which is a lot lower than the intended 1.075

(I use Beersmith and it calculates stuff like pre-boil gravity for me. Although I rarely bother to check)

Starting with the easier thing to address: With you missing your target gravity, the first thing to look at is your calculated overall efficiency. Assuming your calculations were based on 75% overall efficiency it's worth noting that as you go bigger in grain bill and gravity your efficiency will suffer. There's a bit of trial and error in figuring out exactly how much it suffers, but when I'm shooting for ~1.075 OG I'll usually drop my efficiency down to 70% (or even lower).

But the big shock here is that your target volume is a whopping 6L under target. That's huge. I often come up 1L or so short, particularly when I have bigger grain bills or loads of hops (more hops soak up more volume), but 6L is too much to be explained away by plenty of hops.

Because your pre-boil volume is already 3L short (25, not 28L), can I ask whether you took into account the 90 minute boil? Assuming your recipe had 7.05Kg grain (a Ruination clone I just Googled online) the Grainfather mash/sparge calculator tells me you should be using 22.54L mash and sparging with 12.61L for a 90 minute boil. Is that what you used?

PS-
You asked a question before that about whether to top up your final volume. I wouldn't bother if your gravity is already way short. In fact, I'd never top up unless I've somehow overshot my gravity.

EDIT: Grammar.

 

[Coodgee]

you can simplify the water requirements for the grainfather by using the calculator to get the mash water volume required, then just keep sparging (or stop sparging after a certain amount and then just top up) until you have collected 28-29 litres. Then if you under/overshoot your final fermenter volume then just adjust the total volume accordingly next time. I find for a hoppy beer (>100 grams of hops in the boil) I need as much as 29.5L and about 28.5L otherwise. But it depends on your filter type and at what point you stop pumping into the fermenter too. I stop pumping as soon as I start to see air bubbles getting sucked into the chiller to minimise trub.

 

[kaiserben]

Yes, although it's important to note that if your gravity is already low at that stage of the brew, then topping up with more water is only going to put your gravity out by more. So it's a decision you'll need to make at the time.

(Of course, you could do some on-the-fly calculations and add in some DME to get to your target gravity about right. But again that's a decision each brewer will need to make).

 

[pnorkle]

So, a question for those that have upgraded their original GF controller to the newer "Connect Control Box."

Would you say the cost (admittedly, it's not a lot of money) was worth it? Does it make brewing using the GF easier?

Opinions to the usual address, please.

 

[Dorz]

Ordered a grainfather (with the new controller), sparge unit, blichmann thrumometer and a couple of other goodies yesterday, along with a few cheeky peak all grain kits... should give me a good starting idea of how the brew day goes before creating / modifying some recipes!

 

[Coodgee]

So, a question for those that have upgraded their original GF controller to the newer "Connect Control Box."

Would you say the cost (admittedly, it's not a lot of money) was worth it? Does it make brewing using the GF easier?

Opinions to the usual address, please.

Yep. Adds a lot of consistency to the process

 

[doctr-dan]

(I use Beersmith and it calculates stuff like pre-boil gravity for me. Although I rarely bother to check)
Starting with the easier thing to address: With you missing your target gravity, the first thing to look at is your calculated overall efficiency. Assuming your calculations were based on 75% overall efficiency it's worth noting that as you go bigger in grain bill and gravity your efficiency will suffer. There's a bit of trial and error in figuring out exactly how much it suffers, but when I'm shooting for ~1.075 OG I'll usually drop my efficiency down to 70% (or even lower).
But the big shock here is that your target volume is a whopping 6L under target. That's huge. I often come up 1L or so short, particularly when I have bigger grain bills or loads of hops (more hops soak up more volume), but 6L is too much to be explained away by plenty of hops.

Because your pre-boil volume is already 3L short (25, not 28L), can I ask whether you took into account the 90 minute boil? Assuming your recipe had 7.05Kg grain (a Ruination clone I just Googled online) the Grainfather mash/sparge calculator tells me you should be using 22.54L mash and sparging with 12.61L for a 90 minute boil. Is that what you used?

PS-
You asked a question before that about whether to top up your final volume. I wouldn't bother if your gravity is already way short. In fact, I'd never top up unless I've somehow overshot my gravity.
EDIT: Grammar.

Sorry for the late reply, my Grain bill was 8.37kg and I used 22.7L mash water and 13.4L to sparge.
I did have the efficiency set at 75%
The sparge was super slow

 

[kaiserben]

Alright, so the GF calculator gives values of 22.75L mash and 13.45L sparge (for 8.73kg grain and boiling for 90 minutes). I guess that could explain 1L out of your missing pre-boil Litres).

As you've mentioned the really slow sparge, I guess the rest was still in your grain bed when you removed the basket.

And also, not volume-related, but at 8.73kg, which is right near the limit of the GF's capacity, I'd be lowering efficiency to under 70%, maybe 65% (other GF brewers may disagree with those numbers? I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts).

 

[Gloveski]

well my first all grain brew on the grainfather , it's slightly undercarbed at the moment should be cherry ripe by the weekend . I over shot my ABV should have been 4.6 ended up 5.2 but other than that it tastes bloody fantastic. I had lots of grain floating in this one on the boil but has turned out nice and clear in the end . Big thanks to all that have answered my newbie questions .....especially killer brew cheers to you mate :beerbang:

 

[Coldspace]

well my first all grain brew on the grainfather , it's slightly undercarbed at the moment should be cherry ripe by the weekend . I over shot my ABV should have been 4.6 ended up 5.2 but other than that it tastes bloody fantastic. I had lots of grain floating in this one on the boil but has turned out nice and clear in the end . Big thanks to all that have answered my newbie questions .....especially killer brew cheers to you mate :beerbang:

well my first all grain brew on the grainfather , it's slightly undercarbed at the moment should be cherry ripe by the weekend . I over shot my ABV should have been 4.6 ended up 5.2 but other than that it tastes bloody fantastic. I had lots of grain floating in this one on the boil but has turned out nice and clear in the end . Big thanks to all that have answered my newbie questions .....especially killer brew cheers to you mate :beerbang:

No looking back now, love the g/f

 

[Gloveski]

well another brew down today was an interesting day to say the least.

Done a helles Lager from mangrove jack's. When I opened the pack I thought the crush looked really fine but being a newbie I soldiered on

Well it started off badly had massive water build up whilst mashing and grain everywhere again. So about 45 minutes in I stopped everything and stirred up the mash again even though it looked fine and started the mash from scratch again.
Everyhing was back on track until mashout it took for ever to hit mash temp of 75 . I was looking at the heat setting on iphone app compared to what was actually on the controller it just basically stayed at 30% whilst on my phone it was ramping up I reckon atleast 40 minutes to get from mash to mash out. Will be sending an email to grainfather about this

So preboil my effieciency was really high about 95% probably due to the extra long mash?
Had a preboil volume of 29 litres

In the boil had lots of grain again same as last brew but this time I was armed with a sieve and just scoped all the loose grain out during the 90 minute boil . Only thing I can think of is I am moving the bottom plate seal when mashing in because I double checked the bottom plate before putting in any grain?

So started the counter flow chiller all was going well done the steralise and then started the cold water to chill down and low and behold about 5 minutes in I have a bloody leak.

So had to pump to fermenter at about 35 degrees and have it chilling down in fermentation fridge until it hits a reasonable temp so I can pitch yeast . Ended up with 21 litres in fermenter so 2 litres short of desired not sure why though?

I have named my little brewery Pigs Den Brewing after the way my kids treat the spare room I set up for them. Thinking after today renaming it Tits Up Brewing because today wasn't a good brew day lol But I did hit my OG so atleast that is one thing

But what makes it all worth while I am sitting here drinking my first all grain brew and it is bloody fantastic :beerbang:

 

[Yola]

I have just hooked into beersmith and I though there was a profile for the robobrew but I can't find it. Has someone out there set a profile up for this yet? Can you please help me with it!! What changes need to be made from the grainfather profile to suit the robobrew?
Thanks

 

[d3vour3r]

where are people going for the 50L version?

can only find 30l version listed on supplier websites.

want to go halves with a mate and slit the brew per brew

 

[wide eyed and legless]

In the boil had lots of grain again same as last brew but this time I was armed with a sieve and just scoped all the loose grain out during the 90 minute boil . Only thing I can think of is I am moving the bottom plate seal when mashing in because I double checked the bottom plate before putting in any grain?

Does your bottom sieve have a silicone seal around it and does it move easily? I thought they were pretty tight.

 

[Chridech]

where are people going for the 50L version?

can only find 30l version listed on supplier websites.

want to go halves with a mate and slit the brew per brew

99% certain there is no 50L Grainfather.

 

[Yola]

Robobrew have a 50 or 60lt version coming out.

 

[Gloveski]

Does your bottom sieve have a silicone seal around it and does it move easily? I thought they were pretty tight.

I wouldn't say it's over tight , I double checked to make sure it was seated correctly see how the next brew goes

 

[d3vour3r]

i plan on going halves on a GF and brewing with a mate. Would be nice to make 2x20L batches from one 25L brew.

do many people do this? would have to dilute a high gravity wort, then split into 2x20L batches to ferment and dry hop at our respective homes.

im guessing a larger hop profile will be needed to compensate for the dilution as well.

is there calculators out there to work out dilution amounts etc?

 

[fletcher]

i plan on going halves on a GF and brewing with a mate. Would be nice to make 2x20L batches from one 25L brew.

do many people do this? would have to dilute a high gravity wort, then split into 2x20L batches to ferment and dry hop at our respective homes.

im guessing a larger hop profile will be needed to compensate for the dilution as well.

is there calculators out there to work out dilution amounts etc?

yes. here's one.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/dilution-and-boiloff-gravity-calculator/

 

[Coldspace]

i plan on going halves on a GF and brewing with a mate. Would be nice to make 2x20L batches from one 25L brew.

do many people do this? would have to dilute a high gravity wort, then split into 2x20L batches to ferment and dry hop at our respective homes.

im guessing a larger hop profile will be needed to compensate for the dilution as well.

is there calculators out there to work out dilution amounts etc?

Look up my posts on double batches in GF. I do these all the time to get 2 cubes at around 1048-1050 beers. Works a treat.
Sorry I can't provide a link, I'm on iPad , but someone else may point you in the right direction. I did a big write up on the steps.

Cheers

 

[Gloveski]

I double batch always with Grainfather , same time but get 2 cubes.
I start with 23 ltrs, at strike temp then leave on mash low heat setting while stirring in,then slowly mash in my 8.5 to 9 kgs max of grains, slow and steady stir and stab with paddle up and down like mixing up concrete.
Usually once I've stirred in about 7 kgs of grain, I swing the top pipe over the top of the grain bed, start pump, and pump approx 2 -3 ltrs of water ontop.
This then makes it much easier to mash the final 2 kgs in.
I usually then mash for 75 mins and do 20 min mash out at 78. This helps with sparging.
Then, I just keep sparging till I see it dripped upto the 30 ltr mark.
I then place the malt pipe into an old esky and sparge it with another 6 ltrs of water and just let the last goodness run out into esky while I boil. You can take top plate of, give the grain a stir and sparge with final water, I find I get the last sugars totally out. Then Usually about 7 to 8 ltrs trickles out into esky which works out perfect for top ups and keeps efficiency up. Sit the malt pipe ontop of a Tupperware container etc to keep it off the floor of esky or bucket to catch second sparge runnings.
I then use this final runnings to top up the boil while doing my additions,
Just top up slowly so the boil is not killed, or I have an immersion heater from my previous brewing days which is use to ramp up the temps in between strike and boils to save time.
When my boil is done, I top right to top , about 10mm from lip with runnings or boiled water .
I then wait for the temp to drop to about 90-92 degrees, then pump straight into 2 x 15 ltr cubes that I saved from fresh wort kits, or you can buy 15 ltr containers.
The full double batch Grainfather fills 2 of these perfectly to the top.
Seal, and leave, I also add my hop additions I would normally use at sub 15 mark into little hop socks straight into the cubes.
What I have now is an over gravity for style 15 ltr cube, actually more like 16 lts.
When time to ferment, I dump into fermenter and top up to 21 ltrs.
I usually get OG of 1.046 to 1.048 which is plenty for me, and I get 2 x 19 ltr kegs from one cook up.
Last sat, while doing yard work etc, I got 2 double batches , so 4 cubes of a nice pilsener and pale ale , and allowing for my immersion heater to save time and everything took about 7 hrs.start to cleaned and packed up. Also managed to mow yard and take kids to shops in between mash times to keep SWMBO happy. Lol
Espescially using no chill, saves heaps of water and about 30 mins per Cook up. It's a no brainer.
Unless doing a high grav brew, double batch all the way.
I've done about 25-30 double batches now, and works a treat.
Hope this helps.

 

[Gloveski]

Presume this is what you were talking about coldspace great info

 

[wide eyed and legless]

That's a pretty stiff mash, 9 kg to 23 litres of water, I would be concerned about running it dry under the FB.

 

[Coldspace]

That's a pretty stiff mash, 9 kg to 23 litres of water, I would be concerned about running it dry under the FB.

It's on limits, but I've done over 60 of these to date and works a treat. Worst outcome was when I had a poor ebay crusher, averaged 1043-1044 per 44 ltrs after dilution . Sparging was a bitch especially with rye or heaps of wheat, local brewshops crushed grain including some from site sponsors averaged 1046 upto 1050 looking over my notes,Now with my fluted mill I achieve 1050 to 1054 grav on average at 44 ltrs. Sparging with the mash using the twin fluted is a breeze now, takes 10-15 mins. This grav is Plenty for standard ales and lagers. I've perfected my high grav mashes and even when on the rare occasion I just do the standard 4.5 kg bill for say 23 ltrs there's bugger all diff in the grav and flavour outcome , these 44 ltr batches out of one gf cook up are Perfect size for my 50 ltr kegmenters .

This method makes the most out of the grain father. For bigger beers single batches are best.

We now run 2 g/f here at my brewshed. Have a brew fri nite, over night mash (tks to Batz tips), first batch boiled and done by 9 am, second batches away, all cleaned up by early sat arvo and we have 8 cubes done.

Plenty for me , brother and close mate.

I also have to state, these twin fluted mills are simply the gun in grain prep. No ifs or buts...

Cheers

 

[Gloveski]

It's on limits, but I've done over 60 of these to date and works a treat. Worst outcome was when I had a poor ebay crusher, averaged 1043-1044 per 44 ltrs after dilution . Sparging was a bitch especially with rye or heaps of wheat, local brewshops crushed grain including some from site sponsors averaged 1046 upto 1050 looking over my notes,Now with my fluted mill I achieve 1050 to 1054 grav on average at 44 ltrs. Sparging with the mash using the twin fluted is a breeze now, takes 10-15 mins. This grav is Plenty for standard ales and lagers. I've perfected my high grav mashes and even when on the rare occasion I just do the standard 4.5 kg bill for say 23 ltrs there's bugger all diff in the grav and flavour outcome , these 44 ltr batches out of one gf cook up are Perfect size for my 50 ltr kegmenters .

This method makes the most out of the grain father. For bigger beers single batches are best.

We now run 2 g/f here at my brewshed. Have a brew fri nite, over night mash (tks to Batz tips), first batch boiled and done by 9 am, second batches away, all cleaned up by early sat arvo and we have 8 cubes done.

Plenty for me , brother and close mate.

I also have to state, these twin fluted mills are simply the gun in grain prep. No ifs or buts...

Cheers

Interesting overnight mash is that mentioned in this thread coldspace.........................great guide by the way will definately use this when I have a house beer sorted out with working away if I can get two kegs worth in one day is winning for me

 

[Gloveski]

grain father recipe creator is up and running should be good to export straight to connect brew.grainfather.com is the link

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Coldspace, how are you working out your salt additions with all that grain and so little water, are you lowering the pH of the sparge water,and how long does it take to sparge?
If you did two separate batches with no sparge then you would be saving time, plus getting a better beer, less chance of polyphenols and tannins, it may mean that you lose efficiency but you are losing efficiency anyway.

 

[Coldspace]

Coldspace, how are you working out your salt additions with all that grain and so little water, are you lowering the pH of the sparge water,and how long does it take to sparge?
If you did two separate batches with no sparge then you would be saving time, plus getting a better beer, less chance of polyphenols and tannins, it may mean that you lose efficiency but you are losing efficiency anyway.

Water additions are calculated for 23 ltrs. ph is basically the same as when using 15 ltrs and 4.5 kgs. Well at least on my test strips.
It basically a high grav brew, the g/f was designed to carry upto 9 kgs for big beers anyway, so for standard grav, we basically just water it down at the end to get 1050-1054 or thereabouts , get 2 kegs from one batch. Great for standard ales and lagers.
Bigger beers you only get one batch per Cook up.

Efficiency , lol, it may be like 3-5 % down on going smaller batches, but who really cares about 3%, I'm not that much of a tight arse to worry about a few hundred grams of grain , lol. I'm still getting full strength beers 44 ltrs out of 8.8 to 9 kgs of grain , plenty, you do need a good crush.

Tannins etc, the quality has been the same, got plenty of piss head mates who line up at my taps and love the beers, the boys who work for me get on it every Friday arvo.
Plenty of quality . I've been brewing for 25 years and the quality these days with good equipment has made leaps and bounds.

It's a great technique to get 2 cornies plus 5 ltr mini keg out of one batch, a few others have tried this and it works great. I used to high grav brew in my extract days, double malts, double hops, brew up, and either , water down and ferment , or ferment high grav,, then water down and keg. Works good if you have all processes down. Plenty of my beers have been to engagements, 30ths, 21sts , 40ths etc ,
Sparging, now using the 9 kg mashes, using grain crushed with my twin fluted mill takes 15 or so minutes, sparging basically done it the same speed as the g/f urn tap can fill container . I have the older urns from g/f so the taps fill alittle slower. But 15 mins is fine, especially when sparging 2 g/fathers simultaneously

If wanting to try a new receipe, then standard single batch is recommended , but high grav brewing is another great way to knock out big batches, it's nothing new, people around the world have done this.

How's the Guten? Can you do 9 kgs and high grav mash in them? Give it ago and report back.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Well as the Guten has a higher volume than the GF, yes you can do a high gravity beer, the manufacturer does recommend no more than 8kg and on the forums most GF users say 9 kg is pushing the limits.If I was to do a double batch I would be doing two separate 60 minute mashes, no sparge and no mash out. Tip the grain into another malt pipe empty the wort into a fermenter and do the second mash, again no mash out or sparge.
Put the first wort back into the Guten and boil both at the same time (40 litre boiling capacity) hop additions just can't be doubled because of the gravity of the wort so it has to be worked out what the hop additions should be.
The grain bill would be higher than normal because of efficiency loss with the method I would use whereas if you are getting 1050 to 1054 you aren't losing much efficiency at all, even with a 15 minute, 15 or 16 litre sparge, so between the two there is not a great deal of difference in time.
Did you use Beersmith, Brewer's Friend or some other program to work out the schedule and hop additions?