Cardinal Pell's no show

[madpierre06]

...I wish more women would sexually abuse me....... h34r:

Sorry, 86% DON'T get reported, every schoolboys fantasy I would imagine, the ones that do get reported are either Pigs in knickers, sexually assaulted a girl or there is something gravely amiss with the boys.

If you blokes are REALLY serious about the seriousness of abuse.....do some research into the actual damage this causes young blokes,

And when you head to the pub and find the girls who were so easy to get...you can thank the blokes (some priests) who abused them. Because many are the direct product of this.

 

[Dave70]

Good luck hiding now pell
http://startsatsixty.com.au/current-affairs/news/good-luck-hiding-now-pell-abuse-victims-raise-thousands-for-trip-to-rome

Abuse survivor Stephen Woods said he wants Pell to face the victims in person, in an “open” place, not locked away safely in Rome

Locked away in Rome. Home to Vatican city and birthplace of Catholicism. Advantage Pell.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Start of a downward spiral for these wee lads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN9Hd0_uW6o

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

And when you head to the pub and find the girls who were so easy to get...you can thank the blokes (some priests) who abused them. Because many are the direct product of this.

mmmm....cant really agree 100% with that......I dont think you can tie "being easy" to being abused...I would tend to think that if you where abused you wouldnt necessarily become "easy"... of course there will be exceptions to this rule, as there always is and will be

 

[Camo6]

I'm not sure where the whole idea that belief and/or deathbed repentance is a guarantee of salvation came from but my guess is a simplified evangelistic Christianity.

1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


1 John 1:7[SIZE=14.08px] [/SIZE]

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.


1 Corinthians 10:13

No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.


Acts 2:38[SIZE=14.08px] [/SIZE]

And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


1 John 2:1

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.





Acts 3:19


Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out,


Hebrews 10:17

Then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”





The great thing about the Bible is it can be interpreted in so many ways.

 

[tavas]

FTFY

I thought the Masons and the Church didn't get along.

 

[tavas]

Abuse survivor Stephen Woods said he wants Pell to face the victims in person, in an “open” place, not locked away safely in Rome

Locked away in Rome. Home to Vatican city and birthplace of Catholicism. Advantage Pell.

Abuse survivor Stephen Woods said he wants Pell to face the victims in person, in an “open” place, not locked away safely in Rome

Locked away in Rome. Home to Vatican city and birthplace of Catholicism. Advantage Pell.

I think the closest they will get to Pell is standing in St Peter's Basilica like all the other tourists. As sad as that is.

 

[tavas]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought renouncing your sins on your deathbed only got you as far as judgement from God. If you don't repent, you go straight to hell, if you repent you get a chance at judgement and possibly cut some time in Purgatory.

But as Camo says, you can interpret the Bible any way you want. Just as Pell is doing. I'd call him a dog but that's an insult to dogs. Perhaps shit c*nt is a better description.

 

[Camo6]

Also depends on how many infidels you've beheaded.

 

[AJS2154]

Actually, makes me think what an amateur Pell is when comes to dodging pressing legal engagements. A doctors certificate? Pffft.. Pathetic. Nobody's buying that.

Skasie on the other hand, now there's a bloke who knew the value of theatrics when the chips (and Quintex share prices) were down.

Yeah......but Dave Skasie did die not so long afterwards. Perhaps that is taking the charade a little too seriously. He really was a method actor.

 

[madpierre06]

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:7[SIZE=14.08px] [/SIZE] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

Acts 2:38[SIZE=14.08px] [/SIZE] And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.





Acts 3:19

Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out,

Hebrews 10:17 Then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”





The great thing about the Bible is it can be interpreted in so many ways.

Agree...what is your interpretation of these? ASnd the passage from Acts 2:38 has nothing to do with this, it is primarily for non-believers.

But it doesn't necessarily mean that you can use a deathbed repentance as a 'get out of jail free' card.

James 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

As far as the final judgement is concerned, the passage TimT quoted is on the money...your relationship with Jesus Christ is key, based on John 3:16. God Himself gave up the right to our final judgement once He had sent Christ, who went to the cross in order to allow us to be free of that judgement. That is why our relationship with Christ IS the key. He went willingly to facilitate this.

How does this relate to Pell and his church, and their judgement? Those who lead, cause and enable other believers to sin...they'd be better offf having a bloody big rock tied to their necks and chucked in the water than face their final judgement (Matthew and Luke paraphrased). Just because they are high ranking members of a church/religion does not necessarily mean that they are followers of Christ. Far from it.

 

[madpierre06]

mmmm....cant really agree 100% with that......I dont think you can tie "being easy" to being abused...I would tend to think that if you where abused you wouldnt necessarily become "easy"... of course there will be exceptions to this rule, as there always is and will be

Agree with you there, that's why I said 'many'. There is also the factor of how the abuse occurred, there is much of it which in the eyes of some would seem to be quite low-level or relatively harmless....but the damage it causes in how the victim 'does relationships' can be immeasureable. And that's why I took it to my original pouint...young blokes will be affected just as badly as girls when victims of the opposite sex. The 'jokes' which I originally quoted....are not funny at all. And when made are minimising abuse.

 

[manticle]

Agreed with the last bit from mp.
Sexual abuse happens irrespective of gender (some of the court stories from the endemic ballarat abuse involve female collaborators) and often involve sadism as much as anything.
Scary, traumatic, made worse by the puerile idea that it's only ever a hot teacher to a newly evolving pubescent.
If a six year old is abused/raped/assaulted by a 60 year old in an institution, it's pretty horrible no matter what gender the perpetrator or victim.

I had fantasies about some of my teachers when I was in high school too but it doesn't make real abuse something to be taken lightly.

 

[spog]

Been scrolling through this topic but not posting .
Never been abused myself but I know some who have been so I best stay out, lest I "have a go " and windup being either banned or sued.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

A good friend of mine was taken advantage of at age 13 by a female employer (3 times his age) - he has terrible issues stemming from it. Maybe not as physically heavy as what has gone on behind the pulpit, but the psychological damage is real.

 

[Camo6]

Agree...what is your interpretation of these? Different to yours I imagine.

And the passage from Acts 2:38 has nothing to do with this, it is primarily for non-believers. Apologies, I just cut & pasted from Google. But the gist is the same, yeah?

But it doesn't necessarily mean that you can use a deathbed repentance as a 'get out of jail free' card. Again, open to interpretation. If one was to believe that to be the case than they could expect it to be so.

Sorry, straying off-topic. This thread isn't a discussion on religion as much as it is the abuse of power that can be associated with it. I was raised a Christian and appreciate a lot of its merits but have also seen the self righteous sanctimony it can create. God or no God, people need to be held accountable for their crimes and should not be protected due to their position. On that I can see we both agree.

 

[madpierre06]

Sorry, straying off-topic. This thread isn't a discussion on religion as much as it is the abuse of power that can be associated with it. I was raised a Christian and appreciate a lot of its merits but have also seen the self righteous sanctimony it can create. God or no God, people need to be held accountable for their crimes and should not be protected due to their position. On that I can see we both agree.

Mate, I agree with you entirley here, and it was those points you raised which caused me much hatred and vitriol towards anything to do with such organisations for most of my life, having also been raised in 'em . And their use to cover/mitigate acts such as those which are central to this thread. No need to go into details but you get my drift.

My point about the 'deathbed rep.' is more to do with motive...if someone is genuinely remorseful...then that makes a great difference...

 

[manticle]

Great difference to who?
How is genuine defined?
By what is that remorse driven? Fear of repercussion or something different?

Possibly leading to way OT and an interesting discussion for another time but I think the issues relate to individuals first, institutions next, religion/theology/philosophy latest but none can claim no fault

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Individual + institution + religion/theology/philosophy = The Holy Trinity

 

[madpierre06]

Great difference to who? To Christ, as it His mediation for us upon which salvation depends.
How is genuine defined? Heartfelt
By what is that remorse driven? Fear of repercussion or something different? A heartfelt understanding that first and foremost one's sin is against God...if it's fear of repercussion, then it's not genuine remorse, it's fear driven.

Possibly leading to way OT and an interesting discussion for another time but I think the issues relate to individuals first, institutions next, religion/theology/philosophy latest but none can claim no fault

Kept it simple to avoid the OT, but I can say from experience that it is entirely possible to reach this state of heart and mind. It is relevant to the thread in that some people's understanding of what eternal life depends on is a tad off the mark. And whether blokes such as Pell can ever hope to be forgiven by God. The thing is, we were all actually forgiven once Christ went to the cross, that was the whole point of the cross. It is our relationship with Christ which determines our eternal outcomes. Nothing more, nothing less. The only unforgiveable sin is speaking against the Holy Spirit, which has been interpreted to equate to total rejection of Christ.

So, for Pell, as with anyone else, it is between he and Christ. That may be difficult to accept for many people, particularly those more personally affected by these things which have been committed. And understandably so. But it doesn't mean that he shouldn't have to face the natural consequences of his actions on this earth. As he should. If he doesn't, then that is no different to situations where many other people have gotten away with shit.