Cardinal Pell's no show

[manticle]

I have a history of hating Pell for his arch conservative views and everything he stands for and he absolutely should be pushed in every which way to answer any and all questions in this regard.

He is still innocent till proven guilty. There's an awful lot that could go wrong with due process in this regard but if it's all that's available; anyone and everyone needs to be given that, no matter how much I personally despise them.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

He is what they term as a "Protected Species"

He has God on his side......

 

[manticle]

I know.
Cynical me says **** him and all his kind but if we let the actual principles of justice go, we're no better.

So far he's guilty by association, assumption and accusation and none of those are good enough.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

And the fact he knows about it, but what did he do.....moved the priests......

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

If only it was the same as Jake

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX5tfRdkoY0

 

[Dave70]

I know.
Cynical me says **** him and all his kind but if we let the actual principles of justice go, we're no better.

So far he's guilty by association, assumption and accusation and none of those are good enough.

Much as I'd hate to see a miscarriage of justice, obscurantism or contempt will do for me.

 

[technobabble66]

And the fact he knows about it, but what did he do.....moved the priests......

This.
This really gets me - how on earth can he not be another face of evil?!

I'd completely agree with manticle - principles are only tested when it's tempting to do otherwise. And our principles of fair justice need to apply even to evil fkrs like Pell.
Though I'd definitely agree given the extensive situation he should be forced to front up in court, even if air ambulances are required. The only good thing about his lamest of excuses for not showing up in court is that it reveals the kind of person he truly is.

Slightly OT, I'm curious as to where all the xenophobes went who were protesting what *might* occur if a mosque was built somewhere. All the hype on how Islam could *potentially* harm our society. Where are they in this - where a Christian church has been shown to actually harm our society?? A Christian organization not only having pedophiles in their ranks (which, to be fair, could initially be any organization) but condoning and facilitating their evil - which I'd argue is the real evil in this. It reeks of hypocrisy and blind ignorance.

 

[Dave70]

This.
This really gets me - how on earth can he not be another face of evil?!

I'd completely agree with manticle - principles are only tested when it's tempting to do otherwise. And our principles of fair justice need to apply even to evil fkrs like Pell.
Though I'd definitely agree given the extensive situation he should be forced to front up in court, even if air ambulances are required. The only good thing about his lamest of excuses for not showing up in court is that it reveals the kind of person he truly is.

Slightly OT, I'm curious as to where all the xenophobes went who were protesting what *might* occur if a mosque was built somewhere. All the hype on how Islam could *potentially* harm our society. Where are they in this - where a Christian church has been shown to actually harm our society?? A Christian organization not only having pedophiles in their ranks (which, to be fair, could initially be any organization) but condoning and facilitating their evil - which I'd argue is the real evil in this. It reeks of hypocrisy and blind ignorance.

Likely they successfully lobbied the local planning authority to deny the application. Job done. Why keep shouting about it. Just like the proposal for the islamic cemetery up the road fro my place was knocked back. That had nothing to do with 'xenophobia' and everything to do with bodily fluids of decomposing corpses contaminating the ground water.

At the end of the day you have to ask yourself what is a better deal for society as a whole. Which is why I oppose the proliferation of any religious edifice.
Unfortunately there seems to be an inverse relationship between how many mosques a country boasts and the prosperity of its inhabitants. Cant blame people - much less accuse them of xenophobia, for wanting not wanting to encourage hubs where bad ideas are spread.
God is apparently omnipresent, a port a loo is as good as a church in practical terms.

 

[pcmfisher]

If there is a God, and George Pell believes there is, then he must be sweating on his own judgement day. He will know is his own conscience if he has done something wrong, and if he has he must feel like his has plenty to answer for on that day.

He will stew in his own juice if he has done something wrong. Going to judgement day without making things right is considered a very bad thing in his faith. If he exists, The Big Man will deal with him......harshly I suspect.

He will make things right by then. All he needs is a few Hail Marys to absolve all his sins and he will be straight to heaven with God giving him a wink on the way past.
The worst and only unforgivable sin is non belief in God.
It is only these heathen bastards that end up burning in Hell forever.

 

[Mardoo]

Two words: beer volcano.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Two words: beer volcano.

Ramen brother. May the Sauce be with you

 

[yankinoz]

I taught anthropology for 25 years in a Catholic seminary. One unfortunate trait of the Catholic Church, and one that I'd argued with the priest/president, was the Church's extreme reluctance to admit fault. Comes with papal infallibility, I guess, but I think it's one source of many of their present problems, such as stonewalling on molestation. Money is another factor. Too bad--the priests and brothers I worked with really wanted to serve poor communities, and not just by preaching and performing sacraments.

Before that I was on the board of the national archives in PNG. At one point they requested copies of church archives, including those from WWII. All but one church involved in those years complied. Guess which one didn't?

What does all that have to Pell? Never mind the new pope, Rome will cover for him guilty or innocent, but Pell's arrogance does not help their cause..

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

The worst and only unforgivable sin is non belief in God.

Well, I am well and truly screwed on that front

 

[pcmfisher]

Well, I am well and truly screwed on that front

No you're not. Your spaghetti an meatballs God will save you.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

In case anyone was starting to feel sorry for him: http://cathnews.acu.edu.au/207/174.php

 

[pcmfisher]

I taught anthropology for 25 years in a Catholic seminary. One unfortunate trait of the Catholic Church, and one that I'd argued with the priest/president, was the Church's extreme reluctance to admit fault. Comes with papal infallibility, I guess, but I think it's one source of many of their present problems, such as stonewalling on molestation. Money is another factor. Too bad--the priests and brothers I worked with really wanted to serve poor communities, and not just by preaching and performing sacraments.

Before that I was on the board of the national archives in PNG. At one point they requested copies of church archives, including those from WWII. All but one church involved in those years complied. Guess which one didn't?

What does all that have to Pell? Never mind the new pope, Rome will cover for him guilty or innocent, but Pell's arrogance does not help their cause..

But preaching, converting and saving souls is still their major mission while supposedly helping the needy.
Those poor and hungry still have to sit through a sermon or at least some sort of religious mumbo jumbo somewhere along the line.
Sort of like holding their sandwiches ransom in the name of Jesus.

 

[technobabble66]

Doesn't it seem strange that he dedicates his life to preaching a message of how good, pious people will enter an eternal paradise when they die, yet he's avoiding catching a flight due to heart troubles - the downside of which would be that he dies and enters this eternal paradise??

Hypocrisy, awareness of a life of peddling lies, or awareness of the evils he's perpetrated?


Anyway, i happened to be reading some interesting psychology stuff, about Sociopaths compared to Psycopaths.
Does it sound a little like yours truly?:

"Psychopaths, on the other hand, are unable to form emotional attachments or feel real empathy with others, although they often have disarming or even charming personalities. Psychopaths are very manipulative and can easily gain people’s trust. They learn to mimic emotions, despite their inability to actually feel them, and will appear normal to unsuspecting people. Psychopaths are often well educated and hold steady jobs. Some are so good at manipulation and mimicry that they have families and other long-term relationships without those around them ever suspecting their true nature.
When committing crimes, psychopaths carefully plan out every detail in advance and often have contingency plans in place. Unlike their sociopathic counterparts, psychopathic criminals are cool, calm, and meticulous. Their crimes, whether violent or non-violent, will be highly organized and generally offer few clues for authorities to pursue. Intelligent psychopaths make excellent white-collar criminals and "con artists" due to their calm and charismatic natures. "

 

[TimT]

The question is, do we want Pell to suffer without having heard his evidence, or do we want him to serve the royal commission in the most useful way possible? Pell getting on a plane flight that might kill him - or might affect his healthy badly - would hardly benefit the commission.

Amanda Vanstone wrote a good defence of Pell in The Age recently. Her argument as I take it does not so much absolve Pell of responsibility as point out that the common urge to 'take Pell down', to hunt him down as a representative of the church doesn't serve much good and may end up letting a lot of lesser-known figures in the church who are equally (or more) responsible for the crimes committed against children in their care off the hook.

 

[Dave70]

In case anyone was starting to feel sorry for him: http://cathnews.acu.edu.au/207/174.php

Fair go now. Don't forget the churches role in helping to stop the spread of HIV in places like sub Saharan Africa by encouraging the use of condoms and thus saving thousands of people from an agonizing lonely death.

Or was it the other way around?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

"Psychopaths, on the other hand, are unable to form emotional attachments or feel real empathy with others, although they often have disarming or even charming personalities. Psychopaths are very manipulative and can easily gain people’s trust. They learn to mimic emotions, despite their inability to actually feel them, and will appear normal to unsuspecting people. Psychopaths are often well educated and hold steady jobs. Some are so good at manipulation and mimicry that they have families and other long-term relationships without those around them ever suspecting their true nature.
When committing crimes, psychopaths carefully plan out every detail in advance and often have contingency plans in place. Unlike their sociopathic counterparts, psychopathic criminals are cool, calm, and meticulous. Their crimes, whether violent or non-violent, will be highly organized and generally offer few clues for authorities to pursue. Intelligent psychopaths make excellent white-collar criminals and "con artists" due to their calm and charismatic natures. "

Alice Morgan is my favourite psychopath, though I can't see the connection with Pell.