Cardinal Pell's no show

[wereprawn]

Who is more trustworthy, the person who does good deeds because they care about fellow humans or the person who does those same deeds for fear of punishment from "God"? They're not necessary mutually exclusive , but my moneys on the former . Inspiring trust isn't one of Pells, or the church's strong points , unless you happen to believe in their imaginary sky friend.

 

[Mardoo]

...who apparently wants to put his hand on your knee....for starters.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Kept it simple to avoid the OT, but I can say from experience that it is entirely possible to reach this state of heart and mind. It is relevant to the thread in that some people's understanding of what eternal life depends on is a tad off the mark. And whether blokes such as Pell can ever hope to be forgiven by God. The thing is, we were all actually forgiven once Christ went to the cross, that was the whole point of the cross. It is our relationship with Christ which determines our eternal outcomes. Nothing more, nothing less. The only unforgiveable sin is speaking against the Holy Spirit, which has been interpreted to equate to total rejection of Christ.

So, for Pell, as with anyone else, it is between he and Christ. That may be difficult to accept for many people, particularly those more personally affected by these things which have been committed. And understandably so. But it doesn't mean that he shouldn't have to face the natural consequences of his actions on this earth. As he should. If he doesn't, then that is no different to situations where many other people have gotten away with shit.

I care SFA for God....whoever he is.

Religion is bullshit.

That is all.

 

[Dave70]

Who is more trustworthy, the person who does good deeds because they care about fellow humans or the person who does those same deeds for fear of punishment from "God"? They're not necessary mutually exclusive , but my moneys on the former . Inspiring trust isn't one of Pells, or the church's strong points , unless you happen to believe in their imaginary sky friend.

“Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”

Stephen Weinberg.

I care SFA for God....whoever he is.

Religion is bullshit.

That is all.

Right.
No Easter eggs for you then.

 

[RobW]

Just when you thought they'd plumbed the depths

 

[michaeld16]

Right.
No Easter eggs for you then.

Unless he believes in the Easter bunny

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Unless he believes in the Easter bunny

Is his name Frank ?

 

[pcmfisher]

Kept it simple to avoid the OT, but I can say from experience that it is entirely possible to reach this state of heart and mind. It is relevant to the thread in that some people's understanding of what eternal life depends on is a tad off the mark. And whether blokes such as Pell can ever hope to be forgiven by God. The thing is, we were all actually forgiven once Christ went to the cross, that was the whole point of the cross. It is our relationship with Christ which determines our eternal outcomes. Nothing more, nothing less. The only unforgiveable sin is speaking against the Holy Spirit, which has been interpreted to equate to total rejection of Christ.

So, for Pell, as with anyone else, it is between he and Christ. That may be difficult to accept for many people, particularly those more personally affected by these things which have been committed. And understandably so. But it doesn't mean that he shouldn't have to face the natural consequences of his actions on this earth. As he should. If he doesn't, then that is no different to situations where many other people have gotten away with shit.

We? Speak for yourself and other believers.

So God gave himself to himself to create a loophole for rules he created, ie original sin.
How absurd.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Churches ( and any religious body ) should start paying tax

This whole Tax exception for church's is a load of shit.

The Catlickers Church make 100's of MILLIONS each year and have assets in NSW alone of over 2 billion











But then again...they have to pay for retirement home for pedophile priests....

 

[Liam_snorkel]

or at the very least- pay land tax, and tax on any income, and have greater transparency/accountability to separate the genuine charity work from proselytising.

 

[madpierre06]

We? Speak for yourself and other believers.

So God gave himself to himself to create a loophole for rules he created, ie original sin.
How absurd.

You miss the point...it was actually for non-believers. Still, we were also given the will to believe what we wish. Absolutely freely.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Well....I believe there is no God ( or any religious deity ) , never has been, never will be

 

[madpierre06]

That'sd your belief /opinion, and I am no way going to try and convince you otherwise, the basis of your opinion is more than likely quite valid. And at no time will I ever ridicule anyone who does not believe, or the basis of their point of view. The difference between us is that I KNOW that He exists, and is very real. And my belief and the basis of it is ridiculed a great deal by yourself and others. That's fine, because we are told that is how it is and will continue to be. And I wouldn't have it any other way. I would ask you this though....why are you often the first to post when matters relating to God are raised, or even when they are not but the opportunity arises, you are the first to come in with a shot about something/someone who you do not believes exists. That's a lot of effort to put into something which supposedly does not exist.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

I don't believe anything. Belief by definition is accepting that something is true regardless of evidence.

 

[madpierre06]

I don't believe anything. Belief by definition is accepting that something is true regardless of evidence.

So, when you have had experiental evidence....I'm no great academic, for mine though that's is when belief becomes knowledge.

That's a good point you make mate, because there is very little that I believe either. But in this case, I do know.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

So, when you have had experiental evidence....I'm no great academic, for mine though that's is when belief becomes knowledge.

That's a good point you make mate, because there is very little that I believe either. But in this case, I do know.

That's right. For those who experience faith evidence is irrelevant, because you just know.

Here's a little trick (for everyone) - the language we use determines how we think, and frames our perception of the world. If every time we're about to use the word 'belief' - switch it with the word 'think'. It will make us, at least briefly, apply some critical thought.

 

[Parks]

Not positive doesn't mean negative.

You can believe something that is true if you haven't been given sufficient evidence of it. To believe is to come to a rational conclusion based on factors which do not conclusively prove it.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

. The difference between us is that I KNOW that He exists, and is very real.

How do you know he EXISTS....have you had the chance to actually meet him, ...where is the proof that he exists.....I mean there are billions of people who beleive he exists, but NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON...EVER HAS benn able to prove it...

I believe I am a millionare, the reality is that I am not one

How do you know he is real....


Dont try and put the burden on ME that GOD ( or whoever he is ) exists or does not

I give you Russells Teapot....

Russell's teapot

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

• 
  

Russell's teapot, sometimes called the celestial teapot or cosmic teapot, is an analogy first coined by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970) to illustrate that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims rather than shifting the burden of proof to others, specifically in the case of religion.[1] Russell wrote that, if he claims that a teapot orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, it is nonsensical for him to expect others to believe him on the ground that they cannot prove him wrong. Russell's teapot is still referred to in discussions concerning the existence of God.




Just because some bloke dressed in a white dress in a building reads from a book of stories on Sundays tells you he exists does not mean that he does.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Because he has faith, I just explained that.

 

[Feldon]

I don't believe anything. Belief by definition is accepting that something is true regardless of evidence.

But you believe things all the time, we all do.

Eg. next time you're driving down the road and get the green light at an intersection you believe that the lights are showing red for traffic crossing the intersection, and you drive straight through, comfortable in the belief that the other set of lights are red. You have no direct evidence of their redness, just belief.