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Bulk Priming Problems, Help Needed

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Curry

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Hey Guys,

I have resumed my brewing career after a few years off, and I have taken to all grain brewing. Everything is going really well, with the exception of carbonation in the bottles.

I am using the Bottle & Bulk Priming Calculator link from this forum (http://webspace.webring.com/people/ms/sirleslie/AlcoholChart/PrimingCalculator.html), but I am finding my bottles to be particular under-carbonated for what I want. The exception is the last fill bottle which always seems to be a foamer, so I taken to stirring the beer after racking onto the dissolved dextrose.

I have been cold crashing a few of these brews to try and help clarity, this concerns me as to whether I have dropped too many yeast out of solution. However from what I read, I can't seem to find anyone adjusting the amount of dextrose up to compensate for this.

One batch totally confused me, because the last fill bottle was a foamer but other bottles have been completely flat.

My last batch was a American IPA that I added 170g of Dextrose into 430ml of water for a 20ltr batch fermented at 18C. Now according to the Bottle & Bulk Priming Calculator, this would have over-carbonated the beer for the style, but the end result is a under carbonated beer with no 'mouth zing'. However it has reasonable head retention and lacing.

I just bottled another American IPA last week that I used 193g of Dextrose into 500ml of water for a 23ltr batch.

I have been waiting 4 weeks after bottling before trying.

Bottom line is I am confused and I am looking for any help that you may be able to offer.

AND before someone mentions it, yes I do want to keg, but at the moment for various reasons I can't.

Any suggestions.

Cheers

Dave
 

crd0902

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No real help from me but how long are you chilling the brews for. I've chilled for a month at 0 degrees and had no drama. Another fella says 2-3 months, no drama maybe just a bit slower so I wouldn't say chilling is the problem
 

Curry

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No real help from me but how long are you chilling the brews for. I've chilled for a month at 0 degrees and had no drama. Another fella says 2-3 months, no drama maybe just a bit slower so I wouldn't say chilling is the problem
I'm just cold crashing at 3C for 48hrs
 

Yob

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no way you are dropping too much yeast.. filtering? finings? what are you botteling in? Dud Bottle caps?

Mate, I generally carb with 100g dex per 23lt batch and get good carbonation (300ml)

er.. :blink:
 

bruce86

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Hey Guys,

I have resumed my brewing career after a few years off, and I have taken to all grain brewing. Everything is going really well, with the exception of carbonation in the bottles.

I am using the Bottle & Bulk Priming Calculator link from this forum (http://webspace.webring.com/people/ms/sirleslie/AlcoholChart/PrimingCalculator.html), but I am finding my bottles to be particular under-carbonated for what I want. The exception is the last fill bottle which always seems to be a foamer, so I taken to stirring the beer after racking onto the dissolved dextrose.

I have been cold crashing a few of these brews to try and help clarity, this concerns me as to whether I have dropped too many yeast out of solution. However from what I read, I can't seem to find anyone adjusting the amount of dextrose up to compensate for this.

One batch totally confused me, because the last fill bottle was a foamer but other bottles have been completely flat.

My last batch was a American IPA that I added 170g of Dextrose into 430ml of water for a 20ltr batch fermented at 18C. Now according to the Bottle & Bulk Priming Calculator, this would have over-carbonated the beer for the style, but the end result is a under carbonated beer with no 'mouth zing'. However it has reasonable head retention and lacing.

I just bottled another American IPA last week that I used 193g of Dextrose into 500ml of water for a 23ltr batch.

I have been waiting 4 weeks after bottling before trying.

Bottom line is I am confused and I am looking for any help that you may be able to offer.

AND before someone mentions it, yes I do want to keg, but at the moment for various reasons I can't.

Any suggestions.

Cheers

Dave
Im no expert and have only done this once but when you rack onto the priming soloution are you getting a good mix? only ask cuz you said one bottle was over carbed and the others flat?
 

Lecterfan

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My last batch was a American IPA that I added 170g of Dextrose into 430ml of water for a 20ltr batch fermented at 18C. Now according to the Bottle & Bulk Priming Calculator, this would have over-carbonated the beer for the style, but the end result is a under carbonated beer with no 'mouth zing'. However it has reasonable head retention and lacing.

I just bottled another American IPA last week that I used 193g of Dextrose into 500ml of water for a 23ltr batch.
...reasonable head and lacing would indicate close to adequate carbonation for my personal taste...BUT.... as a dedicated bulk primer...why on earth are you diluting the priming sugars into so much water?

I just use 200mls-ish, bring to the boil, mix in the bulk priming rate (for me in any given batch it is RARELY, if ever, over 5.5gms per litre, I don't know how everyone else drinks their beer!!!!), boil for 30 seconds or so and then that mixture is added to the main solution and bob is my mother's brother.
 

crd0902

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When you had one bottle way to foamy did it taste really sweet. I had this once and it tasted super sweet and it was put down to bad mixing and way over primed. You don't seem to be overpriming so maybe you need better mixing. Maybe drain a few liters into your vessel then add the mix and rack the rest into it then maybe stir it gently. I'm only guessing and creating a thought so don't take my word for it.
 

Curry

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Thanks for all the quick reply guys.

- I have used Irish Moss in my last couple of brews, apart from that no other finings or filtering
- I am bottling in 650s & 750 that are soaked in Pink stain cleaner for at least a few hours, then rinsed before being sanitised. Filling the bottles to about 570 for 650s and 670 for 750s
- Initially I didnt do any mixing other than have the racking tube coiled around the bottom to promote somewhat of whirlpool. Of late I taken to using a sanitised stir spoon after racking to make sure of a good mix
- A few instruction websites recommended 500ml of water as mixer; I initially thought this was too high, so I went lower. However since my failures I have reverted to what these so called instructions said.
 

Midnight Brew

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What is your bulk priming process?

It may be possible that all of the priming sugar solution hasnt been mixed through the batch thoroughly resulting in some bottles flat and some bottles over carbed. I used a tube to siphon the beer into another fermenter and angle the tube so it makes a very gentle swirl in the fermenter and this stirs the priming sugar solution as it fills up. General practise would be then to stir the brew with a sanitised spoon but the stiring created alone from the siphon should be sufficient.

EDIT: Your procedure looks fine but is the priming solution fully dissolved to make for a better distribution
 

Curry

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EDIT: Your procedure looks fine but is the priming solution fully dissolved to make for a better distribution
I usually boil the dextrose in the water for about 5 minutes before transferring to the fermenter.
 

mwd

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Looks O.K. to me you are not getting a good mix just give the beer a slow steady stir after racking onto the sugar solution.
For a 23l batch you only need 200ml of water and around 160g of dextrose for a reasonably carbonated brew.

Fill your bottles to about 15ml of the cap same as commercial beers.
 

Swordsman

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Looks O.K. to me you are not getting a good mix just give the beer a slow steady stir after racking onto the sugar solution.
For a 23l batch you only need 200ml of water and around 160g of dextrose for a reasonably carbonated brew.

Fill your bottles to about 15ml of the cap same as commercial beers.
Good advice this. I have had the odd issue with undercarbonated beers but not many. Be sure to get the sugar solution well distributed (a very slow swirl with a spoon is ok i think) and 150-170grams is what i use in a 23L batch or so. I like my beers pretty well carbonated except for dark beers anyway....that is just how i like them.

I did an ESB recently that i cold conditioned for a few days and the yeast settled out really well in the fermenter...maybe too well though because they took forever to car up. Even my little test run that i did on top of the hot water system didn't show any signs of carbing for two weeks...i was getting worried. now they are all pretty well carbed to how i like it....this is one beer i didn't want a huge fizz with so i went sligthly under my usual ammount per L. Unless the beer tastes 'sweet' due to unfermented priming sugar than it could just be your system...i.e. how much you fill the bottles, where you leave them to carb up etc. Once you'e done a few beers you can start adjusting the amount of sugar to what you want based on your own preferencses.....
 

RobboMC

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Step 1 - do another brew and change ONE THING.

For example if you fear the cold crashing is the cause then change that but change nothing else.

If problem persists then change something else. This will be a slow process and you may gets lots more low carbed beer,
but at least it's drinkable.
What's your storage temperature, I store in my brew fridge at 20 deg C for the first 2 weeks to ensure proper carbonation.
 

Curry

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Once again your help and suggestions are very much appreciated.

It looks like my base technique is sound, so this is a good thing

- Ill definitely drop the amount of water down from 500ml on the next bottling day
- Ill definitely stir more in the future
- Ill fill my bottles with a greater amount of beer
- The advice of changing one thing at a time is wise, cheers

Is the Bottle & Bulk Priming Calculator accurate and should I continue to use it? I do like the idea of having different carbonation for different styles of beer

Cheers

Dave
 

rude

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Gday curry I havent brewed for a while but used to boil 300mm to 400mm of water with anything from 100g to 170g of dex depending on beer type for 15 mins for sanitary purposes.
I cc allso,then I'de cool solution of dex put it into my bottling fermenter sanitised of course then rack the beer 23l to 25l with a silicon hose coiled on the bottom.
The swirling mixed the solution & beer really well
Never had a prob with carb levels
This bulk primming which I read about here initially was one of the many improvements to my brewing due to AHB
I think there might be a wiki on bulk primming have a search read up then formulate the best way for you.
 

Baulko Brewer

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Hi Curry,

Something that I picked up on the calculator is when priming make sure you measure from the temp that you fermented at, not at the time of bottling after CCing.

I had two batches of undercarbed beer before I worked out that the CCing temp is not the calculator measure but the lowest ferment is correct. So if fermented at 18 make sure you adjust for 18 not 2.

saying that your meassures do look consistent
 

Curry

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I'll have a look for that wiki, cheers.

Thanks Baulko, yeah I pick that temperature thing, very much a trap for a novice.

Cheers
 

Crusty

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I follow this

or this

Mix 1.5ml water to every gm sugar: 2.5vol/co2 = 161g sugar / 23lt batch = 241mls water, boil, add sugar to dissolve, let cool & add to bottling bucket. Make sure you get a good mixing & you can carefully stir with a sanitized spoon to be certain, avoid adding air.
 

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