Brewing Classic Styles

[mje1980]

I have greg noonans bewing lager beer. Great book if you're studying microbiology or chemistry. It has a few small interesting chapters, but l lot of it is very in depth chemical analysis. I haven't looked at it for at least a year.

 

[braufrau]

You know that Designing Great beers book .. I though it was weird .. this obsessive compilation of the parameters in competition beers. Like the author has aspbergers. Doesn't really tell you much except how american amateurs interpret styles, and who cares about that? We want to know what the winners did! Or how successful breweries do it.

Hmm .. maybe I'd better put my flame suit on. h34r: That's better!

 

[gap]

You know that Designing Great beers book .. I though it was weird .. this obsessive compilation of the parameters in competition beers. Like the author has aspbergers. Doesn't really tell you much except how american amateurs interpret styles, and who cares about that? We want to know what the winners did! Or how successful breweries do it.

Hmm .. maybe I'd better put my flame suit on. h34r: That's better!

Braufrau, I agree with you. I also find that a turn off. There are some weird combination of malts in some of those recipes.

Graeme

 

[A3k]

Hi all,
So Im going to make the Belgian Pale Ale as per Braufraus recommendation.

Im just after some feedback to the recipe Ive used for Aussie available ingredients. I've added a table (much easier in excel) showing the recipe from the book and whay i'm planning on using.

My main concerns are
- Biscuit malt. I've read that it's like Victory which i can't get either. Braufrau, could you please tell me what you used?
- Kent Goldings. are these just East Kent Goldings? Do i keep the flameout addition the same?
- Yeast. Wyeast don't appear to sell 3655. is 3522 a good choice?

I'm guessing the pils and caramunich II are both okay.


book
Weight......Ingredient.............................% or IBU
5.1kg........Continental Pils (2.3L)...............89%
.34kg........Caramunich (60L) ...................8%
.11kg.........Biscuit Malt (25L)...................3%
37g...........Kent Goldings (5%) 60 min.........26.4 IBU
9g............Kent Goldings (5%) 0 min...........0 IBU
...............Wyeast 3655 Belgian Schelde


Substitute
Weight.......Ingredient..................................% or IBU
5.1kg.........Weyermann Pilsner (1.7L).................92%
.34kg.........Weyermann Caramunich (63L)............6%
.11kg.........???...........................................2%
48g...........East Kent Goldings (4.2%) 60 min.........26.2 IBU
9g............East Kent Goldings (4.2%) 0 min...........0 IBU
...............Wyeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes



Thanks
Al

 

[Fourstar]

Nope, SRM is close to Lovibond. Lovibond is a measure of the colour of malted grain, SRM is a measure of the colour of beer.

What you want is: L = EBC / 2

Or: EBC = L * 2

This is close enough for most of us homebrewers

My understanding was that converting EBC to SRM is closer to being divisable by 4?

Isnt the true calculation SRM = EBC *.375 +.46 ?!!?

 

[samhighley]

Yeast. Wyeast don't appear to sell 3655. is 3522 a good choice?

Wyeast recommend either 3522 or 3942. I'd personally go the 3522.

Biscuit malt. I've read that it's like Victory which i can't get either. Braufrau, could you please tell me what you used?

You could use CaraAmber as a substitute.

Kent Goldings. are these just East Kent Goldings? Do i keep the flameout addition the same?

Yes

 

[Fourstar]

My main concerns are
- Biscuit malt. I've read that it's like Victory which i can't get either. Braufrau, could you please tell me what you used?
- Kent Goldings. are these just East Kent Goldings? Do i keep the flameout addition the same?
- Yeast. Wyeast don't appear to sell 3655. is 3522 a good choice?

Biscuit Malt, you have a few options, anything that adds a Nutty/bready/digestive biscuit (the ones your mother used when making cheesecakes!) flavour and aroma. So you could use amber malt or melanoiden. If you are desperate, I guess some Munich would be the final option...

 

[A3k]

Cheers guys, that was quick and useful.

I get my stuff from Beerbelly, so for the biscuit malt substitute I can use:
Weyermann Cara Amber 60-80 EBC
Bairds Amber 80-120 EBC
Weyermann Melanoidin 60-80 EBC

From looking up descriptions on the three, the Bairds Amber seems to be the only one that mentions a biscuity taste. Is it too dark, and the flavour going to be too much?

This material has a light, biscuity dry flavor The flavour is quite intense and caution in the use of this material is required



As for the colour issue, i just put it into beersmith, then change the options from SRM to EBC, and it appears to be about 1/2. But that's the extent of my knowledge on that topic.

 

[razz]

I've used Amber malt at 500gms before A3k and it made it noticeable. I think if you subbed in the same amount as the Biscuit then the influence should be subtle. It may up the color of your recipe slightly also.

 

[WarmBeer]

My understanding was that converting EBC to SRM is closer to being divisable by 4?

Isnt the true calculation SRM = EBC *.375 +.46 ?!!?

That is one of the calculations I've found, but it only seems to model well for lighter grains.

I dont see the value in the +.47 when you're talking about an EBC of around 800-900 for Choc grain.

Aparently, the EBC = SRM + 1.97 comes from Ray Daniels "Designing Great Beers".

Again, YMMV.

Cheers,

Brett

 

[mika]

Or you could trust someone from this very forum and look under 'Brewcalcs'

 

[Fourstar]

Cheers guys, that was quick and useful.
I get my stuff from Beerbelly, so for the biscuit malt substitute I can use:
Weyermann Cara Amber 60-80 EBC
Bairds Amber 80-120 EBC
Weyermann Melanoidin 60-80 EBC

Just so you are aware A3k. Cara Amber is a CRYSTAL malt and should not be confused with specialties like Amber, Melanoiden, Biscuit, Victory etc. Amber kilned/roasted malts are not the same as crystals as they have not been stewed and 'crystalised' into caramel sugars. The malts like Amber, Melanoiden etc need to be mashed to convert and are a completly different beast. flavour and aroma wise.

So... dont use CARA Amber, as it is not in the came category as Amber malt. CaraAmber will only give you an amber colour (hence its name) and a Cara malt falvour/aromas, not a biscuit malt flavour.

Cheers! :icon_cheers:

 

[A3k]

Cheers for the clarification Fourstar. I reckon i'll use the Bairds Amber then.


As for the colour issue, i was happy not thinking about it, but this has now changed.

I was just looking on the AHB tools, which almost never works for me, but worked for a few minutes.

Looking at that, Beersmith and my Brewing Classic Styles book just got me confused.

Using EBC values 0 4, (wouldve done more but stopped working) AHB has the equation EBC=2.65*SRM-1.2

Its also weird that Beersmith says SRM is the same as Lovibond. The help file states Lovibond (L) color is an older color measurement system, which for all proactical purposes is identical to SRM for the average brewer but the AHB calculator shows them as rather different.

Then for the recipe Im looking at, the book says 8SRM = 16EBC Practically the same as beersmith.
Beersmith says 8SRM = 15.76 EBC
AHB says 8 SRM = 20 EBC


I might google this and see what other resources say.

 

[bradmcm]

There's only 100g of biscuit malt in that recipe, you would be hard pressed to actually pick up that taste in that recipe, you could safely omit it. For 100g biscuit malt, you could quite easily make some from some ale or pilsner malt on a biscuit or pizza tray in the oven.

 

[braufrau]

I used amber for the biscuit and EKG for the hops. And I used WY3787 at 19C, non of that fluctuating temperature stuff you do for a tripel.

I just checked my brewsheet against the book and I'd swapped the biscuit and caramunich amounts!
Now when I make it again. do I swap it back or keep it the same?? What a dilemna! Haha!

So I guess I can't really claim to have made Jamil's BPA at all! But it was very good.

 

[samhighley]

For 100g biscuit malt, you could quite easily make some from some ale or pilsner malt on a biscuit or pizza tray in the oven.

So that's how they make biscuit malt! Somewhere there is a giant malting house chock full of malt being kilned on biscuit trays.

I always wondered where the name came from

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

:icon_offtopic:

Problematically, when in the states, if I wanted a biscuit, I would have to ask for a cookie and when I was offered a biscuit, I got something a bit like an English Muffin.

So, what sort of tray should I really be using to make biscuit malt?