Braumeister NEXTGEN Build

[lukec]

I'm doing my first brew on mine tomorrow. Lucky enough to have RDO. Valve is after pump. With the amount of testing and mucking around I've done the last 2 weeks I have found the more flow to the pump the better. I'm using march 809.

 

[matho]

awesome luke hope all goes well

cheers

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I think you answered your own question Stux, it would work well for the mash cycle but you would probably have to by pass it for the boil, and I don't know about pump rests, which I think is important in an upward circulation system. Of course you add a switch inline with the pump so you could turn it on and off as you wish, it looks like a good unit and for the price if people don't want to make one themselves then its a bargain really because to put a box like that together would take me about 4-5 hours and then add that to about $150 for the parts. But where the fun in buying something when you can make it

cheers steve

I dont see why it wouldnt work either, the unit has a on/off switch for the pump so thats covered. The unit has not been tested on a prolonged boil but I will sort that out this weekend and report back.
It would be nice to see the two ideas working together.
The fun stops after unit five for the week :lol:
Nev

 

[matho]

The fun stops after unit five for the week :lol:

:lol:

 

[dkaos]

Just called Stokes, they can supply an 850MM 2400W element for $113.45 with $20 shipping. Model number is 227-10B in case anyone is looking for it.

It's U-Bend-It as well.

I'm hoping to find something cheaper, can anyone point me in the right direction?

Cheers,

Clint

 

[lukec]

Just called Stokes, they can supply an 850MM 2400W element for $113.45 with $20 shipping. Model number is 227-10B in case anyone is looking for it.

It's U-Bend-It as well.

I'm hoping to find something cheaper, can anyone point me in the right direction?

Cheers,

Clint

Thermal products Thomastown. 900mm, 2400w element was about $80.

 

[dkaos]

Beauty, thanks Luke. Seeing that site I'm sure it was referenced before in the thread, but I have gotten sick of going through 24 pages so many times over the past few weeks.

Clint

 

[cspencer]

Now you are going to have a 19l malt pipe but you will lose about 2-3 l because of the filter plates so let say the volume between the filter plates will be 16l.
In my calculations when working out my unit I went off that crushed grain displaces 0.65l/Kg and it seems about right so using the 3l/kg and 0.65l/kg you get the total volume required is 3.65l/kg so in a 16l space you will be able to fit 4.4 kg. Now if you want 20l into the fermenter you are going to lose about 2l to hot break and hop material so you will need 22l at the end of the boil. Going off the figure of 38ppg which equate to about 316 points per Kg litres, getting 80% eff out of these style of units is fairly easy so you could expect to extract about 253 points per kg litre, so 253 *4.4 kg / 22l you get an OG of 1.050, if you reduce your water to grain ratio to 2.5l/kg you could get 1.058

Now just trying to get my head around the calculations and process here.

I've got myself a 19L BigW pot (2 infact, so if I stuff the first one I've got a backup) and use this a malt pipe inside a 50L SS pot that I'll have to get. I would have thought that putting the 4.4kg of grain in the malt pipe with the 13.2L of water now equal about (4.4 * 0.65) + 13.2 = 16.0L and this would not overflow the malt pipe and thus have nothing to pump. Should I then be adding water to make sure that the element and pump inlet are covered outside the malt pipe. But would this not then make my water to grain ratio too high, eg around the 4l/kg?

As a software developer I was thinking of using an arduino device with a DS18b20 temp sensor and relays to control the pump and heater. My Questions here are:
- does the brown plastic pump have enough guts to push the water up through the grain?
http://www.gryphonbrewing.com.au/store/pro...products_id=502

- And has anyone used software on a laptop to control the Unit (arduino) which turns things on/off and sends temp updates every 30 seconds back to the program which tells it what to do next, as the software can have graphs of temp and timers (unlimited) and even import your brew files from other programs like Beer Smith (in theory). for me writing the software seems easier than designing/copying/understanding the electonics.

Sorry to be a pain if these have been answered before in theis thread but 26pages is a lot of reading and I only found this a few days ago. :huh:

Thanks matho for the great ideas

Clayton

 

[matho]

hey clayton,

the way I think of it is the malt pipe is your mash tun, so the volume of it will give you your water to grain ratio, then you add the rest of the water to keep the element under the liquid line when pumping, when I get some time tomorrow Ill put some drawings up explaining it.

the Arduino is a great little unit I'm in the process of making up a kit for the controller based on the arduino here are some threads

the controller thread

and

the arduino development thread

there are people working on exactly what you are thinking about, read the arduino thread and see what you think.

anyway can't wait to see what you come up with

cheers steve

 

[dkaos]

Hey Clayton,
Thought I would chime in here as I've re-read the whole 26 pages a few times over. It is worth going through at least once, as well as getting Matho's PDF's for the build to get your head around it. There are heaps of different ways of doing this and the thread delivers!

Clint

 

[cspencer]

Thanks clint, I've read it once but things/ideas started to meld into one, I'll have to go through it taking notes next time.

Thanks steve for the other links

 

[Edak]

Thermal products Thomastown. 900mm, 2400w element was about $80.

Hi Luke

That's a great price for a bend it yourself SS element. Do I have something wrong? Is there really a concern about "scorching" the wort? I hear mixed responses.

Still waiting for my tools to arrive, then I will order the right element.

This was my quote for a range of low density SS elements from TEE. Note that they don't have 3600W or 2400W, but they have 2500W, what the heck is with that?

1 x Part No: UBI-OB225
240V 2250W U-Bend-It Heating Element. 3025mm overall length, 2925mm Heatzone. Low Watt
Density Element, INC800 Sheath to suit slightly acidic solution.
Price @ $139.00 EACH plus GST.

1 x Part No: UBI-OB250
240V 2500W U-Bend-It Heating Element. 3350mm overall length, 3250mm Heatzone. Low Watt
Density Element, INC800 Sheath to suit slightly acidic solution.
Price @ $155.00 EACH plus GST.

1 x Part No: UBI-OB300
240V 3000W U-Bend-It Heating Element. 4000mm overall length, 3900mm Heatzone. Low Watt
Density Element, INC800 Sheath to suit slightly acidic solution.
Price @ $175.00 EACH plus GST.

 

[QldKev]

Now just trying to get my head around the calculations and process here.

I've got myself a 19L BigW pot (2 infact, so if I stuff the first one I've got a backup) and use this a malt pipe inside a 50L SS pot that I'll have to get. I would have thought that putting the 4.4kg of grain in the malt pipe with the 13.2L of water now equal about (4.4 * 0.65) + 13.2 = 16.0L and this would not overflow the malt pipe and thus have nothing to pump. Should I then be adding water to make sure that the element and pump inlet are covered outside the malt pipe. But would this not then make my water to grain ratio too high, eg around the 4l/kg?

As a software developer I was thinking of using an arduino device with a DS18b20 temp sensor and relays to control the pump and heater. My Questions here are:
- does the brown plastic pump have enough guts to push the water up through the grain?
http://www.gryphonbrewing.com.au/store/pro...products_id=502

- And has anyone used software on a laptop to control the Unit (arduino) which turns things on/off and sends temp updates every 30 seconds back to the program which tells it what to do next, as the software can have graphs of temp and timers (unlimited) and even import your brew files from other programs like Beer Smith (in theory). for me writing the software seems easier than designing/copying/understanding the electonics.

Sorry to be a pain if these have been answered before in theis thread but 26pages is a lot of reading and I only found this a few days ago. :huh:

Thanks matho for the great ideas

Clayton

matho has provided the links and there are quite a few people with a lot more knowledge than me on these boards. Also as a developer I went the same way you are talking about. Basically I wrote a protocol for communications between the arduino and a laptop. That way the laptop can have a FAI (Flass Ass Interface) and do full logs of the brew day. The only thing you will need to monitor temps more often than 30 secs for the heat exchanger, so keep the protocol overhead small.

I should pull my finger out and get mine finished, it's been 6 months since I last looked at it.

QldKev

 

[matho]

Hi Luke

That's a great price for a bend it yourself SS element. Do I have something wrong? Is there really a concern about "scorching" the wort? I hear mixed responses.

Edak, I went with low heat density because I was worried about scorching but after seeing what the yanks are using 5500w I don't think scorching is an issue, I went with stainless steel sheath too because they recommended it but I think Incaloy would be fine as that is what everyone else looks like they are using including the braumeister.

clayton I have put a pdf together trying to explain my calculations I hope it makes sense

View attachment braumiser_volume.pdf


cheers steve

 

[angus_grant]

Now just trying to get my head around the calculations and process here.
- And has anyone used software on a laptop to control the Unit (arduino) which turns things on/off and sends temp updates every 30 seconds back to the program which tells it what to do next, as the software can have graphs of temp and timers (unlimited) and even import your brew files from other programs like Beer Smith (in theory). for me writing the software seems easier than designing/copying/understanding the electonics.
Clayton

I have mucked around with a Netduino and have got it reading temps, started hooking up an LCD display. Met some problems there with a Netduino shield being not quite compatible with Netduino (buttons on LCD shield return 5V values, but Netduino analogue pins only read 3.3V), so some hacking required. I haven't played with the built-in Ethernet module, but there are some people who are having problems with DHCP settings, etc.

Having to deal with debugging through USB, limited hardware, limited ram, limited resources, limited pins, etc, etc is all starting to sound too painful to me.

So I have started investigating USB data acquisition modules. You plug these things in, Windows creates a virtual com port and you start banging serial commands off it. The one I am looking at (http://www.bipom.com/products/us/2951617.html) handles having a DS18B20 temp probe plugged straight onto one of it's digital pins. You tell that pin it is in "temperature" mode and the firmware on the board returns you a text value with the temperature in Celcius. Too easy.....

I have sent those guys an email asking if their 10A relay board hooks up to the USB board and if it handles 240V. The relay board uses I2C for communication, but the USB board makes no mention of I2C support. Otherwise I am fairly sure any of the eBay relay boards for the Netduino will hook up to it as the USB board has similar power specs for the pins as the Arduino

And then I am developing a C# application inside Windows with the full MS framework, Windows-grade wireless network for network, can look at hacking into Beersmith/Beermate recipes for controlling brewing electronics, uploading brew results straight to my website, etc, etc. Gravy!!

 

[angus_grant]

Would this relay be a nice addition to these setups: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solid-State-Relay-...3#ht_3762wt_906

I figure if you can use a pot to control the relay output voltage to a heating element, then you could do the same with a PWM pin and somehow feed that PWM output into the relay to control how much power is going into the heating element. I am guessing that would be nicer for the element than being switched on and off constantly when maintaining mash temps.

Matho: how much does your heating element switch on and off when mashing? Is this even a valid concern?

 

[hosko11]

Hi Luke

That's a great price for a bend it yourself SS element. Do I have something wrong? Is there really a concern about "scorching" the wort? I hear mixed responses.

Still waiting for my tools to arrive, then I will order the right element.

This was my quote for a range of low density SS elements from TEE. Note that they don't have 3600W or 2400W, but they have 2500W, what the heck is with that?

1 x Part No: UBI-OB225
240V 2250W U-Bend-It Heating Element. 3025mm overall length, 2925mm Heatzone. Low Watt
Density Element, INC800 Sheath to suit slightly acidic solution.
Price @ $139.00 EACH plus GST.

1 x Part No: UBI-OB250
240V 2500W U-Bend-It Heating Element. 3350mm overall length, 3250mm Heatzone. Low Watt
Density Element, INC800 Sheath to suit slightly acidic solution.
Price @ $155.00 EACH plus GST.

1 x Part No: UBI-OB300
240V 3000W U-Bend-It Heating Element. 4000mm overall length, 3900mm Heatzone. Low Watt
Density Element, INC800 Sheath to suit slightly acidic solution.
Price @ $175.00 EACH plus GST.

Thermal Products also have the incoloy low watt density u-bend elements and I'm pretty sure they were around $100 for the 2400W version (btw they're Grimwood branded elements). They didn't come with brazed on bushes though, so I ended up getting one of the bain marie U shaped elements which is also incoloy, low watt density, 2500W (i think), bendable and has brazed on bushes. I think I paid around $120 for it. I preferred the idea of brazed bushes as it limits nooks and crannies.

 

[matho]

on the original braumiser I have a 2.5 sec switching cycle, so I suppose the worst case scenario would be 50% power 1.25 sec on 1.25 sec off, I have zero crossing switching so RF is reduced I haven't found any problems with this setup. What you have posted is a phase angle firing SSR and it is only on for part of the waveform on part power to all of the waveform for full power

HERE is a PDF explaining different types of SSR, there is also another type of SSR's with mosfets in the output stage which will turn on and off directly with a pulse which could be used directly with PWM, any SSR with a triac in the output stage will always turn off at the zero crossing.

that SSR uses a pot to change the phase angle firing if you wanted to control it with and arduino you will probably need something like THIS

cheers steve

 

[lukec]

Now just trying to get my head around the calculations and process here.

I've got myself a 19L BigW pot (2 infact, so if I stuff the first one I've got a backup) and use this a malt pipe inside a 50L SS pot that I'll have to get. I would have thought that putting the 4.4kg of grain in the malt pipe with the 13.2L of water now equal about (4.4 * 0.65) + 13.2 = 16.0L and this would not overflow the malt pipe and thus have nothing to pump. Should I then be adding water to make sure that the element and pump inlet are covered outside the malt pipe. But would this not then make my water to grain ratio too high, eg around the 4l/kg?

As a software developer I was thinking of using an arduino device with a DS18b20 temp sensor and relays to control the pump and heater. My Questions here are:
- does the brown plastic pump have enough guts to push the water up through the grain?
http://www.gryphonbrewing.com.au/store/pro...products_id=502

- And has anyone used software on a laptop to control the Unit (arduino) which turns things on/off and sends temp updates every 30 seconds back to the program which tells it what to do next, as the software can have graphs of temp and timers (unlimited) and even import your brew files from other programs like Beer Smith (in theory). for me writing the software seems easier than designing/copying/understanding the electonics.

Sorry to be a pain if these have been answered before in theis thread but 26pages is a lot of reading and I only found this a few days ago. :huh:

Thanks matho for the great ideas

Clayton

I'm using bigw pot and just fitted 5kg of grain into it easily. Hope that helps. 50% pale 50% wheat.

 

[cspencer]

clayton I have put a pdf together trying to explain my calculations I hope it makes sense

View attachment 54243


cheers steve

thanks steve for the calculations, I think I understand how/why you are calculating that. I never thought that having too much water in the malt pipe and then adding the grain would just make it overflow into the outer pot (will try to keep that in mind when I get to that stage )

In your example you have minimum initial water of 21.7L with 4.45kg grain this works out to be 4.8L/kg is this too high as we where aiming at 3L/kg, or does this not make any difference.

this coming from a 19L BIAB brewer on the gas stove, that if I want to do a full 23L batch I'll break the recipe in two and do the whole process twice, no-chill in 2x15Lt cubes (75-80% full) and mix together in the fermenter, a lot of work for just one batch of 23L

Clayton