Blood everywhere .. The bottle went BANG

[sponge]

As long as you have nice hands, this guy will do an incredible job.

No innuendo intended... ^_^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2fPdZe7scI

 

[sb944]

The Beer Factory in Sydney is the same:
TEMPERATURE
It is important to keep your beer refrigerated to below 8°C.
When yeast becomes active above this temperature it will start consuming remaining fermentable substances through a secondary fermentation.
Symptoms of beer warming for too long
•Small white dots
•Slight increase in cloudiness
•In extreme cases, bottles blowing

So they admit they don't fully ferment it! From what I've heard though, they warn you when you are there that you'll need the fridge space.

If they just followed the process to the end, wouldn't the extra costs be offset by the fact many more people would buy the product? I know people who have considered doing this, but haven't because of needing 50L of fridge space for the beer.

 

[Kodos]

The reasoning for keeping the beer refrigerated (that they don't use preservatives) sh!ts me no end.

Which commercial brewers use preservatives?

Coopers bottles can sit at room temperatures for years without exploding - they don't use preservatives, or pasteurise, plenty of live yeast in their bottles. It's just pure BS to cover themselves for not doing their job properly.

99% of the time they're brewing the same recipes with same extract, so should know *exactly* what OG and FG to expect. A quick check with a refractometer should show when it's properly done.

If they're keeping their cleaned and sanitised to levels expected of any commercial food preparation facility, infection should not be an issue.

It's just arse-covering BS. And as one of the other posters said, fermentation could start up again at fridge temps, especially if there's a lager yeast involved, or a bacterial infection.

If they were to make the disclaimer that people bringing their own bottles are the risk, I'd understand that. There's no way the store could be held responsible for the strength/cleanliness of bottles brought in by someone else. Storing the bottles in a shed/outside during the heat waves we've had this summer is another thing too (not suggesting this is what's happened here) - a lot of carbed bottles could start to get dangerous if they get above 30 degrees.

Playing with one of the kegging calculators, beer carbed to 2 vols CO2 kept at 4C is about 6.5psi, but raise that to 30C, that's it becomes 29psi. I think that's around the limit of most bottles. (I'm fully prepared to be cut down for that, but I'm pretty sure that reasoning adds up with my year 11 physics of 20 years ago - god that makes me feel old).

But again, UBrewIt doesn't say that's the problem - if that were the case they'd say keep it below 20C, not in the fridge.

I think if I was to start using a U-Brew-It mob, I'd be going in to brew my beer and then take the wort home to ferment myself. Only way to be sure.

 

[pcmfisher]

Um...dont know how an AHB member would go in court. They would not be considered expert and could be regarded as hearsay evidence and they may not be viewed as expert witnesses ( especially considering you have aired your greivence on this forum, they will view it as collusion ). You are prob going to need someone who has some sort of qualifications in the field. Something that most on here do not have. The defence lawyer will just tear them apart. You can bet your arse the uBrew will vigourously defend, and if they win then expect to pay their costs. It sucks balls but going to court is not just a matter of saying " the bottles blew up and i got hurt and its their fault" They will question you on every little detail about what you did when you first left uBrew with the bottles up untill they blew up.

Not trying to discourage you, but lawyers are heartless c*nts in the court room and will stop at nothing to win. I have been in court and cross examined...its not fun at all.

What???
No experts on AHB???

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Everyone on AHB is an expert, but only within the realm.

 

[benno1973]

Just to play devils advocate here...

I've never been to a brew-your-own place, but from what I understand, they are only legally allowed to do it because you add the yeast yourself. They supply the equipment, but don't you ferment it (albeit on premises) and then bottle it yourselves? Could they argue that it's your fault for bottling before it was ready? Again, I've never been to one of those places, and I don't know if they tell you when you have to bottle, but from memory they sell you the wort and the bottles, and you do the fermenting and bottling?

Not to say that they did the righty by you, just spit-balling.

 

[mje1980]

Make a dirty big sign complete with pictures and sit on the footpath in front of the place. When they get the shits, which I'm sure they will, tell them you have 3 months of annual leave booked and you'll see them tomorrow.

This worked very well for someone at work who bought a lemon car. No luck, then he tried it. I think it was 2 days before he got a replacement.

If you want to go down the legal path be sure of it, and be ready to make a lawyer rich.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Correct that the purchaser adds the yeast, it is then fermented in their cool room and they will ring you to come and bottle, or say come back in 2 weeks, if they are busy and running out of space in the cool room what's to say it doesn't get pushed through earlier before fermentation is complete, but I am pretty sure it is force carbonated.

 

[indica86]

Filtered and force carbed.

 

[sb944]

Just to play devils advocate here...

I've never been to a brew-your-own place, but from what I understand, they are only legally allowed to do it because you add the yeast yourself. They supply the equipment, but don't you ferment it (albeit on premises) and then bottle it yourselves? Could they argue that it's your fault for bottling before it was ready? Again, I've never been to one of those places, and I don't know if they tell you when you have to bottle, but from memory they sell you the wort and the bottles, and you do the fermenting and bottling?

Not to say that they did the righty by you, just spit-balling.

No, the fermentation is on them. From their site:
U-Brewit uses purpose built temperature controlled fermenting rooms and established testing and sanitation procedures to ensure your beer is perfect every time.

"established testing" would have to mean take gravity readings? So if they sanitise your bottles onsite, and the fermentation is definitely complete, there should be no way to get a bottle bomb?

You should get them to change that last bit to "perfect every time (-1)".

 

[benno1973]

Or just "average some of the time" perhaps?

They may supply a fermenting room, but that doesn't mean that they do the fermenting. They've sold you the wort, bottles and some refrigeration space. They haven't fermented your beer for you. They could argue that if you hadn't added the yeast, none of this would ever have happened...

 

[booargy]

I'm going to get a batch from them when they go off i'll sue. 30 large bottles expected return per bottle about $10,000. I will be charging $150 per bottle. Lawyers have already been organized.

 

[OzPaleAle]

I'm going to get a batch from them when they go off i'll sue. 30 large bottles expected return per bottle about $10,000. I will be charging $150 per bottle. Lawyers have already been organized.

Its a shame you keep your bottles next to your fine china collection also.....+$50,000

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Or just "average some of the time" perhaps?

They may supply a fermenting room, but that doesn't mean that they do the fermenting. They've sold you the wort, bottles and some refrigeration space. They haven't fermented your beer for you. They could argue that if you hadn't added the yeast, none of this would ever have happened...

Surely some logic comes into play, if they don't intend on you fermenting the beer then what are their intentions having yeast (which they've supplied to customers, mind you) and a fermentation fridge?

If they can argue that if you didn't add the yeast none of it would have happened, you could argue that if they weren't in business in the first place none of it would have happened. Chicken or egg?

 

[benno1973]

True, but remember that the only reason they can conduct the business in the first place is because they aren't fermenting the end product, otherwise they'd need a whole new suite of licenses to sell you alcohol. If the law can overlook that point to allow the business to operate, it can probably apply the same standards to this case.

And you seem to have confused legal outcomes with logic :blink:

 

[GalBrew]

I think one of the problems that we have is that you are a: providing your own bottles of unknown quality and b: you are responsible for their sanitation prior to bottling. It could be argued that your have used old bottles that are not up to the task, or that you did not appropriately sanitise them resulting in infection and further fermentation. I have tasted many a contaminated ubrewit beer over the years, however these have all been canned so all they did was gush and taste like ass. Not trying to blame you for shitty bottle bombs, but it is quite a bit of he said she said here from a proof point of view. That being said if fermentation is not being monitored, then that is bullcrap and very dangerous.....not a business model I would like to be a part of.

 

[sb944]

Sorry, I should have just quoted the whole lot, but there was more:
After the fermentation is complete, usually within 10 days, your beer is placed into a cold room and allowed to settle, mature and wait patiently for your return. Your beer is then filtered, transferred into stainless steel carbonating kegs and carbonated the morning you are booked to return.


So there is no control from the client between pitching the yeast and it being fully carbonated, which puts blame squarely back on them. And the way they write that, it wouldn't matter if you came back 2 weeks or 4 weeks later, they still would have put it in the fridge once they thought fermentation was finished.

However, I can understand the point that there are other factors that can cause this. With what he's got left in bottles, is there any chance an "expert" could determine the cause was definitely unfinished fermentation, rather than unsanitised bottles or extreme heat?

 

[Grainer]

Contacted Slater and Gordon and they gave me a few contacts to help.r

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Would they take it on

 

[Grainer]

Would they take it on

Not unless there is permanent damage to my shoulder.. they said if there is call them in 6 weeks when it has settled down and they will take it on. They don't take on cases until the full injury is known so they can get more cash out of the people.