Biab or change to mashing

[brewtopbeer]

Hey everyone I am loving BIAB at the moment but in the long run I want to get my own mash tun and start doing it that way. Just one question I would like to ask. What is the huge difference? Does it make a better tasting beer? Does it add more body to the beer? I would like to know is it worth changing so your advice would be much appreciated before I start spending more money.

 

[poggor]

I have used an esky with a false bottom as a mash tun and also various different incarnations of BIAB. To be honest I'm not sure there is much difference to the final product. The way I see it there are some pros and cons that are mainly about convenience:

1. A dedicated mash tun requires transfering of wort from one vessel to another. For small volumes (<under 20L) this is not too much of a drama although there is definite potential for mess! for bigger volumes, it's difficult and dangerous without pumps.

2. Dedicated mash tuns can be made to allow better sparging/lautering and (particularly in the case of wort recirculation) can result in clearer worts.

3. Handling the bag for very heavy grain bills can be dangerous and difficult.

Bottom line: if you are thinking of doing 50L batches and above you should probably consider a PUMP and a dedicated mash tun. For smaller batches I don't think there is much difference between the two except i think BIAB is simpler.
Anyone have any other thoughts?


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[brewtopbeer]

Cheers for your feed back mate and I will wait for other responses aswell. Cheers again!!

 

[Bribie G]

3 vessel: mash and remove the wort from the grain
BIAB: mash and remove the grain from the wort.

Hoisting the bag is simple and very easy with an inexpensive pulley system and avoids having to scoop spent grain out of a mash tun.
Putting on my modesty cap, I've outright won a few comps with BIAB and recently brewed the second highest ranking beer in this year's NSW competition.

The use of pumps and several vessels can be conceptualized as a method of doing Industrial brewing scaled down to what you can do in your garage. However the beer factories do what they do because it's really the only way they can produce beer at their scale, and in the early days of All grain brewing, this seemed - at the time - to be the way to go. However, for an example, if you want to do a shop at a supermarket why would you want to hop into a meticulously crafted 1/10 scale B-double model truck and thunder down the street when you can do it far easier by jumping into your Corolla.

 

[Moad]

I would say it gets difficult to do big volumes with BIAB but I'm still pretty new so don't give my opinion too much weight. I'm sure people would do triple + batches with pulleys etc but if you are going to that much effort why not just get another vessel and pump it.

I went BIAB, got a Braumeister and moved to 3v purely to do bigger volumes. No noticable difference in beers outside of other changes to my processes.

 

[Bribie G]

I'd agree that with bigger volumes then you might want to go to a three vessel system, HERMS etc. However Braumeister do larger models as well that are basically BIAB in a steel cylinder and they work ok. Anything over 50L would be at the limits of BIAB for general home use.

 

[Phoney]

The only downside to BIAB IMO is that the efficiency starts going south, quickly for over about 1.075 worts. Not that I brew big beers very often, but it would be nice to be able to pull off a RIS, triple IPA or barley-wine occasionally and not have to faff around as much as you do with BIAB. Juggling multiple pots etc.

 

[Black Devil Dog]

I BIAB in a 40L urn, I'm pretty happy with most of my beers and the ones I'm not so happy with, I put down to recipe or brewer error, rather than equipment. Both of those things can be sorted out with some basic research.

If I was to upgrade it would be to make my process easier, but how much easier than BIAB can it get?

 

[Bribie G]

The only downside to BIAB IMO is that the efficiency starts going south, quickly for over about 1.075 worts. Not that I brew big beers very often, but it would be nice to be able to pull off a RIS, triple IPA or barley-wine occasionally and not have to faff around as much as you do with BIAB. Juggling multiple pots etc.

puzzled.

if you are doing a 1.075 wort with 3 vessel you can pull a very strong first runnings to ferment into your RIS. Then a lot of the fermentables are trapped in the remaining grains and need to be sparged out. So then you either use the spargings as a second runnings (partigyle) or you combine them back with the first runnings then boil for an extended period to get the OG back to 1.075.

No different with BIAB. The beer I referred to that got a gong in the NSW comp was actually a RIS at around 10% ABV and was done in one session with BIAB, with a sparge and a prolonged boil. No probs.

edit: the extra sparge "pot" was a plastic washing up bowl if you want to class that as juggling

 

[poggor]

Yeah i was just thinking that myself. I have had OGs up to 1.085 no probs from BIAB.

 

[poggor]

But i guess the volume limits constraints above still apply- if you are going to make a really big beer you will make less off it before you get into unweildy volumes for BIAB

 

[manticle]

Both are methods of producing wort from mashing malted grain. Some differences on a scientific level but good beer is produced by both and I'd bet very few, if any could pick in blind tasting which method produced the wort that became the beer.

 

[Spiesy]

I'm BIAB. I thought long and hard about upgrading to a 3V RIMS or HERMS system, but at the end of the day, for me, it's just not worth it.

There are claims that 3V systems will give you the ability to achieve clearer wort (through sparging), ability to step mash (through RIMS or HERMS), better ability to hit and maintain mash temp, ability to achieve higher efficiency, more volume or higher OG beers but there always seems to be a workaround for BIAB, if you're willing to do it.

The only thing I can't argue with, is a badarse 3V system certainly looks more impressive.

 

[Spiesy]

Mind you, in an ideal world, if I had the room and money, I would move to 3V.

I like the idea of controlled stepped mash (without having to constantly stir the grain out of fear my bag will melt), I like the idea of a better controlled mash temp, I like the idea of clearer wort and the ability to do bigger volumes, more easily, should I wish.

But at the moment, BIAB is certainly more than adequate for me, and I'm able to make good.beer.

 

[Yob]

I completely side stepped BIAB and went from partials to HERMS, partly because I like to build stuff, partly because I wanted an upgradable system, partly because I knew I'd be heading towards 75-100L output and partly because I just love pumps and setting ramp temps and walking away, the ease of control is awesome, no wrapping blankets etc, just set the temp, set the timer and away you go. Would be even better with a PID setup but I still like the manual control with an STC setup.

So biggest questions that need answering to enable choosing the correct system fro you are, do you like to build? Have you the space? What can you afford?

 

[Yob]

for bigger volumes, it's difficult and dangerous without pumps.

How so?

 

[Kingy]

I'm currently upgrading to a 3 vessell with herms.
1. I'm Sick off turning the gas on and off and stirring the grains to maintain mash temp.
2. I want to make it easier to step mash and mash out.
3. Getting sick of hoisting the bag out.
4. I do double batches all the time now with my 80litre pot and it's pushed to within 5litres from the top of the pot. Id like to do bigger beers and bigger batches.
5. I'd like to be able to do twin double batch days. Mashing in another double batch while I've got one boiling.
6. I've nearly been brewing for ten years now and I want a full system to stare at and admire.
7. So basically easier and a bit less hassle and more volume along with the bling factor and a bit more consistency with temps and replicating beers along with actually planning and building the thing which I'm enjoying.

 

[MastersBrewery]

So biggest questions that need answering to enable choosing the correct system fro you are, do you like to build? Have you the space? What can you afford?

To this I'd add time faffing around the rig on brew day, a lot have gone the way of the BM to make more time for SWMBO, kids etc, 3hr brew day.

 

[Camo6]

3 hour brewday?! My God...could such a thing exist!

 

[slcmorro]

I generally get my 1V BIAB (Ok I cheat, I heat my sparge water up on the stove in a stockpot during mash!) finished within 3.5 - 4 hrs if I no chill.

I did one yesterday which started at 1pm and was finished by 4:45pm. I don't *really* count the heating of the strike water as time, because I can do shit for the first 20 mins and then come back to it. I usually measure and mill during this time. Takes me about 10 mins to sparge after the mash, then I throw the lid on the keggle while getting it up to a ripping boil, and once that's done I start the 60 min boil timer (and the lid comes off, of course). Takes another 10 mins to whirlpool and 5 to drain into a cube, and that's all she wrote.