Adding Dry Grain To Beer

[drsmurto]

Recently had a discussion with a fellow brewer who mentioned that he adds dry grain to already fermented beer.

His reasoning, if the beer isnt malty/roasty etc enough he adds the appropriate grain to the keg. As an example, his stout had added roast barley in the keg (i assume its crushed).

Now my first response was for the jaw to hit the floor. Sanitation. We lecture noobs on boiling the liquor from crystal malt after steeping. The assumption i have made is that dry grain isnt sanitary.

So what lives on the grain and is this inviting an infection or an ingenious method off adjusting the beer post-fermentation?

 

[~MikE]

if it's fermented and it's a relatively low FG (so there's not too many sugars still in there) then i can't see the problem. sanitation is only a major concern at the start of fermentation and becomes less important with reduced available sugars/nutrients etc and increased yeast cell counts.

i have stepped come crystal and strained it into a keg before, but haven't added dry grain...

 

[Adamt]

I voted "Who Cares"... I would simply steep the grains, boil and add liquor to the finished beer.

 

[haysie]

voted "who cares" steeping would be far more hygenic and more tasty flavor!

 

[Muggus]

Late malting you say?

I've heard people adding a bit of steeped Carafa to the secondary (after its boiling and cooling) for extra colour.

I could imagine you could do this with more aromatic and flavoursome grains to give it a malty boost after fermentation. Fermentation can seem to suck the "freshness" out of the maltiness of a beer.

 

[jonocarroll]

So what lives on the grain and is this inviting an infection or an ingenious method off adjusting the beer post-fermentation?

Give the grain a rinse with starsan, let it dry out, then add to fermenter

Didn't vote - not sure what to think. Is there some advantage to not boiling cold-steeped liquor? Or is this just laziness? If you were to boil it you could also add in some more hop profile - add back some of the aroma that apparently gets 'scrubbed' by fermentation.

One way to find out really - Bottle half a batch, then add grain to the other half and let it keep going. Interested to see how it goes.

 

[GMK]

I have been told by a professional brewer that there is a wild yeast that lives on grain husks. So beeter to blanch the grains in steam for a few minutes to kill anything..

But - if it is a high alcohol % then it should be ok....eg a FES or Imperial....etc.

2007 Tanunda Show there was a BBC member (not me) who put an American Brown in that really stood out as something different with a WOW what has he done to do that Factor - (found out later) was Dry Grained for 2 weeks before bottled with brown Malt - and the grainy aroma and flavour was most excellent - ended up 2nd in class and scored over 42 out of 50.
Now I know people are going to say that Brown malt is out of place in an American Brown - but it went so well with the hop aroma and bitterness. Also, when you are blind judging beers - you know nothing about the beer and the method and or ingredients used.

But - i have never smelt or tasted such a grainy aroma and flavour before.

Hope this helps

 

[jeremy]

I have always thought bitburger must do something similar to this, their beer tastes like barley. Funny about that!

 

[Bribie G]

Just bottled an Australian Old Ale that could have done with more colour and toasty flavour, I'm going to be doing another one for a comp in May and might just try some Carafa 3 in secondary ... also my UK milds I'm going to make as well. Hey, I wonder how melanoidin would go :icon_drool2:

 

[raven19]

2007 Tanunda Show there was a BBC member (not me) who put an American Brown in that really stood out as something different with a WOW what has he done to do that Factor - (found out later) was Dry Grained for 2 weeks before bottled with brown Malt - and the grainy aroma and flavour was most excellent - ended up 2nd in class and scored over 42 out of 50.
Now I know people are going to say that Brown malt is out of place in an American Brown - but it went so well with the hop aroma and bitterness. Also, when you are blind judging beers - you know nothing about the beer and the method and or ingredients used.

I like the theory behind this. I would not want to take a risk with a batch of my beer personally, but if you are game, then why not! Case swap option maybe?

 

[warrenlw63]

I have always thought bitburger must do something similar to this, their beer tastes like barley. Funny about that!

I read somewhere that Germans use a grain called Chit-Malt... A barley modified malt that has similar effects to raw barley. This could be a similar thing? It would stand out in something like a pilsner which doesn't have a lot of other specialty grain flavours to compete.

Warren -

 

[Bribie G]

I'm currently using Joe White choc chit malt in mash tun. Yummy.
Might try that in secondary in my next UK mild.

chit malt: scroll down page

 

[drsmurto]

I'm just not sure why people would do this.

Either its a technique you practise as you believe it improves your beer, more so than just putting that grain in the mash tun...... seriously, how could adding dry grain to your beer be better than actually mashing and getting the full flavour profile from it.

Or, you have your beer in secondary or on tap and have decided its not quite what you wanted. Its lacking in some department. At this point i try and work out how i could improve my beer in the NEXT batch (altho dry hopping seems to be a valid technique.... damn... <_< )

 

[newguy]

I'd never do it - too anal about sanitation.

There are certain varieties of malt that are just.....maltier (oooh, good desription I know).....than others. When I lived in BC I was within an hour's drive of Gambrinus Malting and believe me I took advantage of that proximity. Once I even picked up malt that was still warm. But I digress. Every one of their malts had this property - the finished beer tasted exactly like the mash smelled. You know that fresh "just infused" aroma? Yeah, that. Every one of my beers made with that malt smelled like that. Only problem with their malt was that almost every batch wouldn't attenuate until I started adding large quantities of yeast nutrient to the kettle.

 

[katzke]

I'd never do it - too anal about sanitation.

There are certain varieties of malt that are just.....maltier (oooh, good desription I know).....than others. When I lived in BC I was within an hour's drive of Gambrinus Malting and believe me I took advantage of that proximity. Once I even picked up malt that was still warm. But I digress. Every one of their malts had this property - the finished beer tasted exactly like the mash smelled. You know that fresh "just infused" aroma? Yeah, that. Every one of my beers made with that malt smelled like that. Only problem with their malt was that almost every batch wouldn't attenuate until I started adding large quantities of yeast nutrient to the kettle.

I wonder how much of you attenuation problem was water and how much was malt. I read the Zinc thread a while back and other elements in the water are important to yeast health. It could be that the malt was to blame as the soil was poor or the water was to blame as it was lacking in important elements.

Back to the question of adding grain to the ferment. I wonder what the effect of all the proteins and starches has on the almost beer?

 

[newguy]

I wonder how much of you attenuation problem was water and how much was malt. I read the Zinc thread a while back and other elements in the water are important to yeast health. It could be that the malt was to blame as the soil was poor or the water was to blame as it was lacking in important elements.

When I first moved there, I used malt that I brought with me from a different part of the country. No issues with it. It's only after I switched to Gambrinus that I had issues. A couple of guys in my brew club where I now live have used Gambrinus malt and they've also had stuck fermentations. Seeing as how the water is different but the malt was the same, I think I'm safe in blaming the malt. It wasn't a big issue - all I had to do was add yeast nutrient to the kettle and it went away. It's just that it's a PITA until you figure out how to fix it. That said, it was damn fine malt - very tasty and distinctive.

 

[Bizier]

I recently did an old ale and used base grain to sour a portion mid+ferment.

I know that this is obvious, but if you wanted maltier, wouldn't you just add more malt to your tun?

 

[muckanic]

seriously, how could adding dry grain to your beer be better than actually mashing and getting the full flavour profile from it.

Less oxidation, or less fermenter scrubbing of volatiles possibly? The coffee nose on my stouts certainly diminishes with time.

I have at one point steeped about 1 kg of malt in a brew, but that was after taking steps to actually encourage lacto growth. The huskiness was unbearable initially, but receded after about 3 months. Huskless grains might be a different story (wheaten crystal or roast, carafa ...). You could always sanitise in the oven.