Activating Wyeast Smack Packs....quick Question

[Duff]

Is it normal for the smack packs to take over 3 hours to swell? I have a smack pack that I 'smacked' just over 3 hours ago that I want to pitch this afternoon / night and doesnt seem to have swollen much at all (this is the first time I have used the smack packs).

I guess I will just clean everything and get it all ready to put the wort in the fermenter and leave the yeasties to swell up and hopefully they are ready tonight. It is a little cool here today though. Room temp is approx 18deg

I've never seen one swell in under 3 hours. Normally for me, smacked and left for 24 - 48 hours. Then pitched into a starter.

It states somewhere that you don't have to wait until swollen and can pitch, but for mine, it's best to build that activity in a starter before pitching.

 

[TidalPete]

Excuse my ignorance, but I found batz instructions a bit confusing (especially with the pictures mising.)

My last post that thread, can someone please tell me if this is a good plan?

Cheers

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=464221

1. Take my Wyeast packet out of the fridge and allow to warm to room temp
2. Pop the lump as per instructions on side of packet (how long do I need to leave it for?)
3. Boil up 2L of water with 200g of LDME, place in freezer and cool to about 20C
4. Pour solution into a 2.4L steralized juice bottle and then add the wyeast
5. Cap and shake like hell, then remove cap and stretch glad wrap over & close with rubber band. (or is an airlock in the lid necessary?)
6. After 2 - 3 days at high krausen, swirl to raise the yeast
7. Pour into 6 steralized 250ml juice bottles like these and store in the fridge:

Not sure about No3 without checking (Lazy) as I always save 2 litres wort from a previous brew for the next starter. As long as your hydrometer reads 1.040 or over all is good but you will be better off with a 3.0 litre bottle to give more room. Forget the Gladwrap & use the lid. Allow for at least 24 hours to swell.
The rest is near enough but have you ever considered using test tubes instead of stubbies, juice bottles or whatever to save space in the fridge? This is a slightly different technique.

TP

 

[Screwtop]

This I found interesting, has anyone done this before? What would the benifit be?

None, unless it's a lager yeast.

Screwy

 

[Phoney]

Not sure about No3 without checking (Lazy) as I always save 2 litres wort from a previous brew for the next starter. As long as your hydrometer reads 1.040 or over all is good but you will be better off with a 3.0 litre bottle to give more room. Forget the Gladwrap & use the lid. Allow for at least 24 hours to swell.
The rest is near enough but have you ever considered using test tubes instead of stubbies, juice bottles or whatever to save space in the fridge? This is a slightly different technique.

TP

Thanks for the reply!

Ive currently got a 2.4L bottle I was planning on using, but I will source a 3L bottle. The gist of that thread said that 100g of LDME per L of water is the ratio for making starter solution to 'feed' the liquid yeast. That's what I use when I reculture yeast from CPA bottles etc and it seems to work everytime too.

I have thought about using test tubes, and maybe that's a long term goal, but after reading this thread, it seems like it can be an expensive and a pain-in-the-butt-to-aquire option. Whereas I can get a 6pack of little 300mL juice bottles for 4 bucks from the shop up the road. So long as they stay sterile they should be ok right?

 

[TidalPete]

I can get a 6pack of little 300mL juice bottles for 4 bucks from the shop up the road. So long as they stay sterile they should be ok right?

Or you can get small glass sample jars from the chemist & split your smackpack (Generation 0) into 8\10 jars before doing a starter & get 40 to 50 starters out of it if you do it correctly?

TP

 

[Mantis]

Any links to info on splitting a liquid yeast pack. :icon_cheers:

 

[rich_lamb]

without checking the content, I think Chris talked about this in the original presentation, so try here

Melbourne Brewers Linky

 

[Mantis]

Wow, thanks for the link.
That looks scary :blink:

 

[drtomc]

Or you can get small glass sample jars from the chemist & split your smackpack (Generation 0) into 8\10 jars before doing a starter & get 40 to 50 starters out of it if you do it correctly?

Even if you split in to 8 starters only, and don't do multiple generations or reuse yeast cake, it works out to only a dollar or two per starter which takes using a quality yeast from being a significant expense per brew to being a marginal expense per brew, especially is that's less than the cost of a dry yeast (though I guess dry yeast does some catching up once you factor in the cost of the ingredients for the starter).

FWIW I have half a dozen "sanbitter" bottles in the pressure cooker as we speak in order to bottle some starters (3724 and 3944). They're 100ml and a long thin shape so I can pack in quite a few without taking over too much of the domestic fridge (If only I had space for a second one for brewing...).

T.

 

[pokolbinguy]

I pitched my Wyeast last night at about this time (so has been about 24hrs since)....packet had started to swell but was not firm by any means but I needed to get it pitched as I would not have had time till now and the idea of pitching over 30 hours after "smacking" didn't seem to sit right with me if I left it till this arvo...anyway 24hrs later and the ferment does not seem to have kicked off...now I realise I should not jump to conclusions and will atleast wait till tomorrow night (48 hrs after pitching) and see what is going on...but what is the normal time for Wyeast to kick off and really get going? Temp at pitch was a scratch under 20deg.

Just thought I would get some feedback on this as I am unfamilar with the use of liquid yeast.

Cheers and beers,

Pok

...off to carb some beer

 

[BoilerBoy]

I pitched my Wyeast last night at about this time (so has been about 24hrs since)....packet had started to swell but was not firm by any means but I needed to get it pitched as I would not have had time till now and the idea of pitching over 30 hours after "smacking" didn't seem to sit right with me if I left it till this arvo...anyway 24hrs later and the ferment does not seem to have kicked off...now I realise I should not jump to conclusions and will atleast wait till tomorrow night (48 hrs after pitching) and see what is going on...but what is the normal time for Wyeast to kick off and really get going? Temp at pitch was a scratch under 20deg.

Just thought I would get some feedback on this as I am unfamilar with the use of liquid yeast.

Cheers and beers,

Pok

...off to carb some beer

This is why you can remove the guess work and hope by preparing an "ACTIVE" starter prior to brew day. its really that simple, no stress, no worry, no hope it ok????

I know what the instructions say, but you can never substitute the assurance from pitching an "ACTIVE"starter, I've had smack packs both propagator and activator that have taken upto 4-5 days to swell

If your yeast is ready early wack it in the fridge, then on brew day drain off the excess spent starter wort and add a litre of the fresh wort wait 4-6 hours until the yeast is up and firing then pitch.

Been doing this for 3 years now and it never fails to take off,

Cheers,
BB

 

[pokolbinguy]

You make a good point there BB...I really have to get in the habit of making starters.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Someone mentioned it earlier - but it didn't seem to make much of an impression. The activator packs main reason for existing is to give you an indication of how healthy and viable the yeast inside them is. Its not to give you an active pitch or to "wake up" the yeast - its just so that you know before you use it - that its viable and good.

So a very fresh and spotlessly well stored Wyeast smackpack will contain roughly 100billion cells - and thats adequate to pitch into 19L of "normal" strength wort. And those very fresh, in tip top condition packs - will swell in 3 hours or a little more once they have warmed up.

If it takes significantly longer than that to swell - then they yeast is not in the fresh and viable condition that means the pack is pitchable, assuming you believe the Wyeast people when they give you the rates they think their yeast should be pitched at. And you should make a starter.

I would always smack the pack enough days ahead of brewing so that if it took more than 4 or 5 hours to swell I would have time to make a starter - but then again, I almost always make a starter regardless.

Its my opinion - that the quality gain you might get by using a specific liquid yeast - is completely negated by pitching at less than optimum rates, and that if you cant or wont go to the effort of making an appropriate starter (if the pack isn't in optimum condition) then most people would be better off pitching a decent dried yeast instead.

 

[BoilerBoy]

Someone mentioned it earlier - but it didn't seem to make much of an impression. The activator packs main reason for existing is to give you an indication of how healthy and viable the yeast inside them is. Its not to give you an active pitch or to "wake up" the yeast - its just so that you know before you use it - that its viable and good.

So a very fresh and spotlessly well stored Wyeast smackpack will contain roughly 100billion cells - and thats adequate to pitch into 19L of "normal" strength wort. And those very fresh, in tip top condition packs - will swell in 3 hours or a little more once they have warmed up.

If it takes significantly longer than that to swell - then they yeast is not in the fresh and viable condition that means the pack is pitchable, assuming you believe the Wyeast people when they give you the rates they think their yeast should be pitched at. And you should make a starter.

I would always smack the pack enough days ahead of brewing so that if it took more than 4 or 5 hours to swell I would have time to make a starter - but then again, I almost always make a starter regardless.

Its my opinion - that the quality gain you might get by using a specific liquid yeast - is completely negated by pitching at less than optimum rates, and that if you cant or wont go to the effort of making an appropriate starter (if the pack isn't in optimum condition) then most people would be better off pitching a decent dried yeast instead.

THirsty Boy,
I agree, there are too many variables affecting yeast health and viability that can simply be overcome by planning ahead to make a yeast starter.
I always use liquid yeast, therefore a yeast starter is mandatory IMHO, which means I can always be confident knowing its active and viable and no sweat, stress, crossing fingers, "but the instructions said" and so on.

BB

 

[pokolbinguy]

So is the 24hr (now about 36hrs) wait normal for ferment to kick off with wyeast?. Now I realise my wyeast pack may not have been active at pitching (hadn't swollen right up) and that is my fault due to ignorance and also being in somewhat of a rush...not really things that go well together.

Anyway will wait till tonight and see what has happened but I don't have any back up yeast to re-pitch with. The only thing I have is some kit yeast ("Cascade Bohemian Yeast" or "Thomas Coopers yeast"), which unfortunatley may have to do the job as I won't be able to get to the HBS till tuesday .

Should I:

- Just leave it and wait till tonight
- give it a good stir to get some more air in it and then wait till tonight
- if nothing has happened by tonight (another 10 hrs later) should I pitch one of my other yeasts......I'm not too fond of this idea but it may be the only option.

So folks considering I've been a bit of an idiot and should have just made a starter but didnt what should I be doing....

Pok

 

[Bribie G]

What style of beer is it? It's surpising what you can do in a pinch, I had to do an emergency pitch with an Aussie Old and the only ale yeast I had was 2 packs of Coopers kit yeast which AFAIK is Mauri ale 514. I rehydrated and pitched, done and dusted in 5 days and on bottling on Tuesday, at that stage it was so close to BJCP guidelines (it's for a comp ) my toes curled. Trying an early bottle tonight side by side with a Tooheys.

If it's for anything like an English style I'd go the Coopers. There's always the possibility it's a house yeast as well but I don't believe they dry their own yeasts so maybe it's something a bit better like an S-04 but that's just speculation.

 

[Ross]

So is the 24hr (now about 36hrs) wait normal for ferment to kick off with wyeast?. Now I realise my wyeast pack may not have been active at pitching (hadn't swollen right up) and that is my fault due to ignorance and also being in somewhat of a rush...not really things that go well together.

Anyway will wait till tonight and see what has happened but I don't have any back up yeast to re-pitch with. The only thing I have is some kit yeast ("Cascade Bohemian Yeast" or "Thomas Coopers yeast"), which unfortunatley may have to do the job as I won't be able to get to the HBS till tuesday .

Should I:

- Just leave it and wait till tonight
- give it a good stir to get some more air in it and then wait till tonight
- if nothing has happened by tonight (another 10 hrs later) should I pitch one of my other yeasts......I'm not too fond of this idea but it may be the only option.

So folks considering I've been a bit of an idiot and should have just made a starter but didnt what should I be doing....

Pok

Pok,

Just leave it - If your conditions are sanitary & you leave it well alone all should be sweet. I'd put money on it firing by tomorrow morning.

Cheers Ross

 

[pokolbinguy]

Pok,
Just leave it - If your conditions are sanitary & you leave it well alone all should be sweet. I'd put money on it firing by tomorrow morning.
Cheers Ross

Okey doke will do Ross. Came home from work just now and no action still but will see what has happened by tomorrow. If things haven't started what do you recommend I do? (just in case)

Pok.

 

[pokolbinguy]

Looks like things are finally happening

 

[Sammus]

So is the 24hr (now about 36hrs) wait normal for ferment to kick off with wyeast?

Not really, starter is definately the go, every wyeast I've pitched (bar one) has been fermenting well and truely within 12hrs. One of them was even going in about 20min! (big starter pitched at high krausen). The one was a lager yeast I'd pitched that wasn't particularly viable, underpitched (even at ale pitching rates) and straight into cold wort too. Was going after 48hrs though. Ended up a tasty drop