A Different Stc1000 Question

[bignath]

you have your power 'in" going to 5 and 7.

I'm 100% sure it is supposed to go to 6 and 8.

5 and 7 as far as i know, are supposed to power your outlets (as per Nick's diagram).

Have had another read of my post you responded to.

I don't think it's arrogant at all.
I've even put a caveat in there that indicates I could in fact be incorrect...

Dunno what's so arrogant about that.

 

[Diesel80]

Just my opinion, but I'd rather have all cables (and housing) connected to the main earth. Definitely in no way meant to be taken as a personal attack on anyone...

<3A still does a whoooole lotta damage.

Sponge,

i have all my earth wires joined at the terminal block in my installation. How do i earth a plastic case?
I assume the fact that all earth wires are joined would at least offer me some kind of protection if the worst should happen?

Cheers,
D80

 

[Yob]

Ive had another read as well and would like to see the diagram on the back of your STC, it may be different than mine...

but I doubt it.. at the end of the day it's a switch, will (possibly) work either way, just not as intended (I guess)..

I also stand by the fact those connectors do not look to be 10A ones..

I could be wrong there also..

Harden up a bit soldier, if you know you are correct, back it up with evidence, I have pointed out that to my eye it looks incorrect, and certainly todays models are not wired like that, refer Nicks linked image.

****, at the end of the day it's your and your familys safety we are trying to look out for

 

[gravey]

If you connect all your earths (power in and power out) you dont need the fuse, that's what I was getting at, just in case that wasnt clear.

Yob - They are 15A (possibly higher), so rated higher than necessary - I work in a foundary, pretty sure the sparkies here would not be using anything but. All of the gear was given to me by our maintenance department and the wiring checked by a sparky and double checked by another sparky when I plugged my first one in as I was a bit nervous, despite having reasonable knowledge of circuits

So, thinking about the apparent 'millions of ways' these things could be wired up I have thought of 'one' other way that would work, but would be quite dangerous and certainly not recommended.

I think what Nath may be referring to as being a dangerous method of wiring an STC-1000 up, is to have the neutral connected to pins 6 & 8 - bad news as you have current still going to your heating/cooling device, it just cant return, circuit is incomplete fridge turns off. When the switch on pins 6/8 turn off, the circuit will work as expected, as there is no return of current via the neutral but you still have current going to your fridge.

The method I have used is perfectly acceptable, it really doesnt matter if power in or power out is doing the switching. Switching on the neutral is certainly not a method any sparky would endorse though. Switching on the live wire, whichever way you go, should not pose any problem as far as I can see.

 

[dammag]

I have one of those grey terminal strips in front of me at the moment and mine is 15A 500V so plenty "big" enough.

 

[QldKev]

okay i am a complete noob to all of this, but finally got my first STC1000 in the mail today on the suggestions of a few on here.... but, how the hell do you wire it up.... i was told there would be instructions on how to wire it, but no.....

can anyone suggest any handy websites that give a step by step process ??

Cheers

BJ

Www.aussiehomebrewer.com.au

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Yob]

it really doesnt matter if power in or power out is doing the switching. Switching on the neutral is certainly not a method any sparky would endorse thoughi

wouldnt the STC innards for the switch for heating and cooling both be constantly powered but just not switched on?

Cant be ideal if that is the case

 

[squirt in the turns]

wouldnt the STC innards for the switch for heating and cooling both be constantly powered but just not switched on?

Cant be ideal if that is the case

I'd agree with gravey and say it doesn't matter. There are 2 sets of relay contacts (5/6 and 7/8). They function exactly the way a single-pole single-throw switch on the live wire would: breaking the circuit when open and completing it when closed. Within the pair it doesn't make any difference which, out the 2 contacts, is "in" (connected to the mains) or "out" (connected to the appliance).

Not sure exactly what you're getting at, Yob, but without the "innards" being powered on, nothing would work.

If the concern is that the appliance/load is not entirely isolated (i.e. that it is permanently connected to the neutral), then the only way to solve that is to add another relay (or 2 if both the heating and cooling circuits are used) to switch the neutral as well. This would require taking the STC apart (bad idea) to solder another relay on. In any event, that'd be overkill if the thing is safely wired and properly earthed.

 

[bignath]

I think what Nath may be referring to as being a dangerous method of wiring an STC-1000 up, is to have the neutral connected to pins 6 & 8 -

No. That's not what i was getting at.

 

[barls]

Someone needs to just sell pre-wired STC1000s for $60 locally so that noobs don't have to wire these up themselves.

way too much paper work required to make it safe and legal.
saying that you supply me with the parts and ill wire it and tag it safe for a nominal fee using the technical skills and qualification i have. 100% legal then.

 

[Black Devil Dog]

Is there a qualified electrician in the house?

 

[booargy]

IT DOES MATTER WHICH CABLE YOU SWITCH.
There is a piece of wire in switch boards called the MEN link this connects the neutral to earth. So if the active is connected and an earth fault occurs the circuit becomes live.
A fuse/circuit breaker is designed to protect the wiring in case of short circuit.
An RCD (residual current device) limits the current through the earth to 30-50mA depending on type. 50mA will kill you.

 

[np1962]

As long as you are switching the Active it makes no difference whether you go in 5 & 7 and out 6 & 8 or in 6 & 8 and out 5 & 7.
Take this from someone who retails these units an who trained as an electronics technician.
As for supplying the units wired and assembled.
As Barls said, it would take many hundreds of units to cover the cost of certification.
Cheers
Nige

P.S. Only have 4 more available until mid January.

 

[Yob]

P.S. Only have 4 more available until mid January.

:lol:

thanks for clearing that up, think I will still wire mine as per the actual diagram on the unit though

 

[dammag]

Maybe it's OK to wire your own unit up but at least test the thing properly.

At the least make sure active, neutral and earth are in the correct position on your outlet and preferably use an RCD tester to make sure your breaker trips in the event of a problem.

As for those lunchbox enclosures, make sure when you knock them off the top of your fridge and go to catch them you don't catch the wrong bit.

As for the which is in, which is out relay contact question, it matters more in DC switching and of course this is AC so I wouldn't worry.

 

[np1962]

:lol:

thanks for clearing that up, think I will still wire mine as per the actual diagram on the unit though

Yob, you keep going on about the diagram on the unit, looking at the unit, a brand new one, an older one and then the instructions that come with the units I can't see anywhere that it states which terminals should be in or out.
If you have a different diagram maybe you would care to post it?
I've done my time working in electrical/electronics and I'm pretty handy at reading diagrams. I think I can find my way around something as simple as this.
Cheers
Nige

 

[jaypes]

Just my opinion, but I'd rather have all cables (and housing) connected to the main earth. Definitely in no way meant to be taken as a personal attack on anyone...

<3A still does a whoooole lotta damage.

Yep, takes less than 1A to kill you

 

[Yob]

My assumption is based on the side of the switch, if the power is on the open side (on the right) then no power can get to the unit until it closes, by no means an expert on electronics but to my thoughts it was a safety way to wire it, still does in my mind,

Happy to be corrected though I think I would, if wiring up another, wire it as I have been with power in on the right.

Cheers

 

[Nick JD]

My assumption is based on the side of the switch, if the power is on the open side (on the right) then no power can get to the unit until it closes, by no means an expert on electronics but to my thoughts it was a safety way to wire it, still does in my mind,

Happy to be corrected though I think I would, if wiring up another, wire it as I have been with power in on the right.

Cheers

WTF?

 

[Yob]

As per the image you posted nick, in on the 6,8 out 5,7.

 

[Black Devil Dog]

So is it ok if I lick my finger before I touch the wires to see which one is live?

 

[browndog]

IT DOES MATTER WHICH CABLE YOU SWITCH

That is ******** dangerous advice to be giving people with no knowledge of electricity.

PLAY IT SAFE, MAKE SURE YOU SWITCH THE ACTIVE ONLY"

I have been the recipient of a good boot from an (apparatus plugged into a power point) because the power point that had the active and neutral reversed. The powerpoint was switched off, but there was still current running through the appliance thanks it being wired incorrectly.

edit- clarification

 

[dammag]

IT DOES MATTER WHICH CABLE YOU SWITCH

That is ******** dangerous advice to be giving people with no knowledge of electricity.

PLAY IT SAFE, MAKE SURE YOU SWITCH THE ACTIVE ONLY"

I have been the recipient of a good boot from a power point that had the active and neutral reversed. The powerpoint was switched off, but there was still current running through the appliance thanks it being wired incorrectly.

Browndog, that say's it DOES matter which "cable" you switch.

 

[labels]

IT DOES MATTER WHICH CABLE YOU SWITCH

That is ******** dangerous advice to be giving people with no knowledge of electricity.

PLAY IT SAFE, MAKE SURE YOU SWITCH THE ACTIVE ONLY"

I have been the recipient of a good boot from a power point that had the active and neutral reversed. The powerpoint was switched off, but there was still current running through the appliance thanks it being wired incorrectly.

Caravans HAVE to have double pole switches by law for this very reason, any silly c*** can wire an extension lead up wrong

 

[browndog]

Caravans HAVE to have double pole switches by law for this very reason, any silly c*** can wire an extension lead up wrong

ANY switch (unless double pole) should switch the active because if you are switching the neutral then the item/apparatus you have switched off is still live and can kill you.

 

[sponge]

As browndog says, you should always switch the active.

Put neutrals on the common, and the active on the NO contact.

Otherwise there can still be current flowing out to the device, even when its switched off, as there's no break in the circuit out to the device along the active.

 

[gravey]

No. That's not what i was getting at.

What are you getting at exactly then? So far you've made a claim but I've seen nothing to back it up. So please, rather than confusing the issue, simply supply some evidence for your claims. Please dont launch into a tirade of abuse this time, I'm not looking for a tantrum, just curious to know where your coming from.

My assumption is based on the side of the switch, if the power is on the open side (on the right) then no power can get to the unit until it closes, by no means an expert on electronics but to my thoughts it was a safety way to wire it, still does in my mind,

Happy to be corrected though I think I would, if wiring up another, wire it as I have been with power in on the right.

Cheers

Still fishing yob? Power goes to the relay in both cases. Are you concerned about the STC-1000 contstantly being powered on via pin 1 as well? I mean having power to pin 1 seems dangerous doesnt it? [/sarcasm]. If you are that concerned about having power going to one side of the relay, but not the other, then I'd suggest you throw you STC in the bin and buy something else. Logic FAIL.

Honestly, its uninformed comments like these, said with such authority at the time, with no evidence to back up what has been said, that confuse a basic topic and muddy the waters. Its no surprise some really good brewers CBF with AHB anymore. I've posted my pics of my wiring on 2 other forums and guess what response I got? "Thanks for contributing". If you are 100% sure on something, then back it up with some evidence, otherwise make your post a question, rather than a statement of fact. In the meantime, wire up your STC with power in going to either side of the relay, both are correct, IMHO and in the opinion of several electricians I have spoken to.

 

[spudfarmerboy]

Gravey,
Let it go mate.
What youv'e posted is fine. Its a waste of time arguing with some of these people who post things that they don't know much about, but like to make out they do.
Making a comment about the terminal strip that you used is an example.
If they knew what they were talking about they would know that the current carrying capability of that terminal strip is fine.
I think they want to get their post count up because why else would they comment if they don't know.

 

[bignath]

Just let it go mate. I can't be ****** with this anymore.

It's not even your thread FFS.

Seriously, I've admitted I don't know a lot about electric circuits, aside from being able to follow simple schematics. Yours works, mine works who gives a ****.

Put yourself in someone else's shoes for a sec and think how all this **** started...
1. You posted a pic of your wiring.
2. For years, it's been considered by the electrical gurus on ahb that the in should go to the evens, out should come from the odds.
3. I don't know you, or your level of expertise.
4. Yob and I see what we have been led to believe by even more experienced people as an incorrect diagram.
5. We pointed it out. We're trying to keep you safe. If it turns out you know more than us then that's fine. Happy to admit it in fact. I've said all along that I could be wrong or 'as far as I know' etc...

Even the most experienced of us make mistakes every once in a whole, but we are big enough to admit it. I haven't displayed arrogance in my posts, just a desire to help and correct something that has been considered incorrect for a long time. Followed by a sharp tongued defense when my initial advice turned to ****.

You'll notice I backed away from derailing this thread yesterday arvo, and I'd suggest you do the same.
I have no intention of contributing in this thread anymore.
I'll stick to helping the more appreciative brewers, or at least the ones that can see both sides of the coin.

 

[Nick JD]

It'd be good if the mods clean up this thread because for the people who are wiring by rote ... it's really offputting to their confidence.