12mm Od Chiller As Herms Heat Exchanger ?

[fcmcg]

Hi pepole...
It's been six months in the making....my HERMS system...now its been quite a sly little process because i need to hide some purchases from SWMBO and i'm too lazy sometimes to take photo's to post on the site...but anyway...i have read heaps of stuff on the site using the search and i know it may not be the best option , but what do ppl think ?

i bought me a plate chiller yesterday(a G&G SS Brazed 20 plate...mmm beer bling) and the next step ,and one that i consider to be the most difficult and interesting ( beacuse there is heaps of pots/ways/ideas on how it could be built and plumbed) , is too build my heat exchanger. Now it's going to be a seperate unit( thanks esp to Chappo for Screwy's info and everyone who starts a HERMS thread) and it dawned on me this morning that i already have a copper coil...and in an attempt to save $$$ and get the show on the road earlier , i was wondering if i could use this ?




The OD of the coil is 12mm. I understand that there is a school of thought on sizes ( at least 3m...and 3/4 inch as most suitable ? )

What are people's thoughts , especially on how efficient it will be ? Do you reckon i just give it a crack ?Save some $$ , keep SWHMBO mushroom like ??

Thoughts/Oppinions !


Now before anyone demands photo's , i need to make the heat exchanger , i still need to butcher all the old metal school desks i got off job sites to make the brewery frame , and weld that , finish the pizza oven ( 40 pizza's and 20 litres of Pils went down Grand final day !!! ), build the deck and do the garden , and keep SWMBO at bay whilst i spend the $$ we don't have building the brewery lol.

Looking forward to what people think about using this coil...
Cheers
Ferg

 

[fcmcg]

Hi pepole...
It's been six months in the making....my HERMS system...now its been quite a sly little process because i need to hide some purchases from SWMBO and i'm too lazy sometimes to take photo's to post on the site...but anyway...i have read heaps of stuff on the site using the search and i know it may not be the best option , but what do ppl think ?

i bought me a plate chiller yesterday(a G&G SS Brazed 20 plate...mmm beer bling) and the next step ,and one that i consider to be the most difficult and interesting ( beacuse there is heaps of pots/ways/ideas on how it could be built and plumbed) , is too build my heat exchanger. Now it's going to be a seperate unit( thanks esp to Chappo for Screwy's info and everyone who starts a HERMS thread) and it dawned on me this morning that i already have a copper coil...and in an attempt to save $$$ and get the show on the road earlier , i was wondering if i could use this ?


View attachment 31566

The OD of the coil is 12mm. I understand that there is a school of thought on sizes ( at least 3m...and 3/4 inch as most suitable ? )

What are people's thoughts , especially on how efficient it will be ? Do you reckon i just give it a crack ?Save some $$ , keep SWHMBO mushroom like ??

Thoughts/Oppinions !


Now before anyone demands photo's , i need to make the heat exchanger , i still need to butcher all the old metal school desks i got off job sites to make the brewery frame , and weld that , finish the pizza oven ( 40 pizza's and 20 litres of Pils went down Grand final day !!! ), build the deck and do the garden , and keep SWMBO at bay whilst i spend the $$ we don't have building the brewery lol.

Looking forward to what people think about using this coil...
Cheers
Ferg

Gee...i thought i'd get at least one reply.....

 

[Spartan 117]

Don't see why not, copper is a great conductor of heat (hence its use in imersion chillers) so i dont think efficeny would be any issue. How do you plan to control the temp of the circulating wort ?

Aaron

 

[fcmcg]

Don't see why not, copper is a great conductor of heat (hence its use in imersion chillers) so i dont think efficeny would be any issue. How do you plan to control the temp of the circulating wort ?

Aaron

I plan on building a sep heat exchanger with a 2400w element and a themocouple...standard HERMS stuff..
Cheers
Ferg

 

[Sammus]

The OD of the coil is 12mm. I understand that there is a school of thought on sizes ( at least 3m...and 3/4 inch as most suitable ? )

Where did you hear that? when I was building mine, 1/2in was considered probably too big, and was recommended to go 3/8 or 1/4.

 

[Spartan 117]

I plan on building a sep heat exchanger with a 2400w element and a themocouple...standard HERMS stuff..
Cheers
Ferg

yeah plenty of power there mate, I say use it and if all else fails and you need to replace it you've not lost anything.

Aaron

 

[seravitae]

Where did you hear that? when I was building mine, 1/2in was considered probably too big, and was recommended to go 3/8 or 1/4.

Half inch is the way to go. firstly, march pump outlets are 1/2" so there's little bottleneck. also 1/4" is tiny, i would expect blockages. also with much smaller sized lines as the march delivers constant pressure expect massively high flow rates may be hard to prevent airation.


Using 12mm for immersion chiller is okay because it's guaranteed that the water going through it won't have any big particles, completely adjustable flow rate, plus you get massive surface area. I wouldn't use something that small for a HERMS at all due to aformentioned fear of blockages. 3 meters @ 1/2" minimum, 6m is a really good idea, 9m if you want to keep your pimp hand strong

keep the immersion chiller for actual chilling, or seeing as you've got a plate exchanger, probalby best bet is to sell it to another brewer to recoup some of the costs of the plate chiller.

 

[Screwtop]

Hi pepole...
It's been six months in the making....my HERMS system...now its been quite a sly little process because i need to hide some purchases from SWMBO and i'm too lazy sometimes to take photo's to post on the site...but anyway...i have read heaps of stuff on the site using the search and i know it may not be the best option , but what do ppl think ?

i bought me a plate chiller yesterday(a G&G SS Brazed 20 plate...mmm beer bling) and the next step ,and one that i consider to be the most difficult and interesting ( beacuse there is heaps of pots/ways/ideas on how it could be built and plumbed) , is too build my heat exchanger. Now it's going to be a seperate unit( thanks esp to Chappo for Screwy's info and everyone who starts a HERMS thread) and it dawned on me this morning that i already have a copper coil...and in an attempt to save $$$ and get the show on the road earlier , i was wondering if i could use this ?


View attachment 31566

The OD of the coil is 12mm. I understand that there is a school of thought on sizes ( at least 3m...and 3/4 inch as most suitable ? )

What are people's thoughts , especially on how efficient it will be ? Do you reckon i just give it a crack ?Save some $$ , keep SWHMBO mushroom like ??

Thoughts/Oppinions !


Now before anyone demands photo's , i need to make the heat exchanger , i still need to butcher all the old metal school desks i got off job sites to make the brewery frame , and weld that , finish the pizza oven ( 40 pizza's and 20 litres of Pils went down Grand final day !!! ), build the deck and do the garden , and keep SWMBO at bay whilst i spend the $$ we don't have building the brewery lol.

Looking forward to what people think about using this coil...
Cheers
Ferg

Hey Ferg, you own it, it's copper, use the fcuker, why not?

Screwy

 

[Sammus]

Half inch is the way to go. firstly, march pump outlets are 1/2" so there's little bottleneck. also 1/4" is tiny, i would expect blockages. also with much smaller sized lines as the march delivers constant pressure expect massively high flow rates may be hard to prevent airation.


Using 12mm for immersion chiller is okay because it's guaranteed that the water going through it won't have any big particles, completely adjustable flow rate, plus you get massive surface area. I wouldn't use something that small for a HERMS at all due to aformentioned fear of blockages. 3 meters @ 1/2" minimum, 6m is a really good idea, 9m if you want to keep your pimp hand strong

keep the immersion chiller for actual chilling, or seeing as you've got a plate exchanger, probalby best bet is to sell it to another brewer to recoup some of the costs of the plate chiller.

Just cos you might expect blockages doesn't mean there will be. You can throttle the flow with a ball valve out the pump outlet and have it running very slow through there, flow rate isn't an issue. March pump has sh!t flow rate anyway, people who are trying their best to agitate the wort post boil (ie whirlpool) have trouble doing, even when using a system that is designed for it. I'm not sure how you might expect airation in a closed, liquid filled loop. Furhtermore, smaller diam pipe has a higher surface area to volume ratio. Half the pipe diameter that doubles the SA:V ratio, making the heat exchanger much more efficient. I'd be using 1/2" MAX.

 

[seravitae]

Just cos you might expect blockages doesn't mean there will be. You can throttle the flow with a ball valve out the pump outlet and have it running very slow through there, flow rate isn't an issue. March pump has sh!t flow rate anyway, people who are trying their best to agitate the wort post boil (ie whirlpool) have trouble doing, even when using a system that is designed for it. I'm not sure how you might expect airation in a closed, liquid filled loop. Furhtermore, smaller diam pipe has a higher surface area to volume ratio. Half the pipe diameter that doubles the SA:V ratio, making the heat exchanger much more efficient. I'd be using 1/2" MAX.

Seeing chappo's march pump outputting at 1+ meter of vertical travel at a decent flowrate makes me beg to differ that you'd consider it was a "shi!" flowrate IMHO.. whirlpooling is a different matter when it comes to flowrate because you need to consider the kinetic and inertial energy of the entire brew at once and cumulatively, not a small amount of wort being recirculated... don't think you can compare the two.

But fair call if you think 1/2" max is suitable, personally i think it's smack bang-on perfect.

 

[Screwtop]

Just cos you might expect blockages doesn't mean there will be. You can throttle the flow with a ball valve out the pump outlet and have it running very slow through there, flow rate isn't an issue. March pump has sh!t flow rate anyway, people who are trying their best to agitate the wort post boil (ie whirlpool) have trouble doing, even when using a system that is designed for it. I'm not sure how you might expect airation in a closed, liquid filled loop. Furhtermore, smaller diam pipe has a higher surface area to volume ratio. Half the pipe diameter that doubles the SA:V ratio, making the heat exchanger much more efficient. I'd be using 1/2" MAX.

What flow rate do you get with your march pump Sammus, have you tried a return manifold in the kettle curved around at the bottom to produce circular motion from the returning wort.

Screwy

 

[Sammus]

What flow rate do you get with your march pump Sammus, have you tried a return manifold in the kettle curved around at the bottom to produce circular motion from the returning wort.

Screwy

I haven't worked out my flowrate, the statement about whirlpooling came from several others experience on this board, trying to build Jamil's Whirlpool Immersion Chiller. I guess rather than flow rate its the pressure the pump can build that is the problem there.

Still, I'm happy with mine, it does exactly what I need it for perfectly.