Zizzle's Brewbot

[kirem]

You have done some great work.

I love the windscreen wiper motor actuated valves.

 

[Zizzle]

Hop dropper is working, although it remains to be seen how reliable it will be. The little jaycar motor and gearbox will probably prove to be a bit too flimsy.

Microswitch to detect when a cup has just passed the hole and dropped it's hops.

 

[kirem]

nice idea.

I was going to go down the seperate containers for hop drops - 4-5 of them similar to your cups but without rotating them past a chute, instead have them feed into chutes that finish in a single chute. Each chute has a solenoid gate valve or similar on it, that is either required to be open or shut.

I figure its a lot easier than controlling how far a motor/servo has to turn to align the cup and chute.

Is there any reason you went for the rotating platform approach?

 

[Andyd]

Interesting,

Have you found much of a problem with the delivery tube steaming up too much and leaving a lot of hop resudue in the shute rather than the beer? (I was noticing yesterday that the packet of Amarillo I used had about 15% powder, which woudn't make it far down the shute as shown...

Andy

 

[Zizzle]

First to answer the questions:

I went with the rotating platform approach because it was cheap to do. Only one motor and some cheap plastics. Solenoids are about $10 from jaycar.

I got the idea from Arnie's setup.

Controlling how far the platform has to rotate to do the drop was actually the quickest and easiest part. Just a micro switch with a bit of wire soldered to it to sense when a cup has just passed the hole.

And yes, powered hops are no good for this setup.


I tasted a sample from the fermeter of the maiden brewbot brew. Initially nice, but a real plasticy aftertaste. I had run a few hot water only runs through the system before hand, but didn't think to taste them. First stop in tracking it down was the 5 meters of new hose from the mains water tap to the HLT. Yep sure enough, drinking from the end of it didn't taste great. It is clear, but reinforced hose rated for high temps from Bunnings. They were out of plain clear PVC hose when I was there.


I have made some recent changes to the plumbing to make the mash tun prime the pump better, and to try to detect when the pump begins to run dry.

The plan was to run the output of the pump up high in a loop of silicon hose, and measure the conductivity across the hose. When the pump starts to run dry gravity would cause the remaining fluid to drain making the loop empty and conductivity drop.

So last night Brad came over and we did side by side brews.

I filled the brewbot HLT by bucket this time. We ran some water though the brewbot and let it heat up. It tasted like hot water, not plastic, so on with the brew. Nothing in the brewbot itself was causing the previous plastic taste, it was just that new hose.

The problem was that running the hot water through had pre-heated the system, so my strike temp was higher than expected.

Also, changing the plumbing to make the mash tun better prime the pump has upset the HLT priming the pump. Bugger. But recirc and sparge went of without a hitch.

Well execpt for the controller not detecting when the mush tun was empty and pump should be turned off. Seems the loop didn't drain as well as I expected it to. The pump seems to hold a column of fluid there that doesn't move. Back to the drawing board. Maybe just bite the bullet and get or make a propper flow sensor. Maybe like this: http://www.overclockers.com/tips1114/ Unless anyone has any good ideas?

Okay so the exciting new bit was the first automated hop addition. Worked as expected.
We then went inside for dinner. Didn't hear the second one go off. Checked a little later. The platform had rotated as expected, but the hops were still wedged in the cup. Doh! It seems there was enough steam getting to them that they swelled up and stuck in the cup. So that hop addition was late by a few minutes.

I've got some other ideas for different designs for the hop dropper.

So more R&D time needed. Much to the distaste of SWMBO.

 

[ArnieW]

First to answer the questions:

I went with the rotating platform approach because it was cheap to do. Only one motor and some cheap plastics. Solenoids are about $10 from jaycar.

I got the idea from Arnie's setup.

Controlling how far the platform has to rotate to do the drop was actually the quickest and easiest part. Just a micro switch with a bit of wire soldered to it to sense when a cup has just passed the hole.

And yes, powered hops are no good for this setup.
I tasted a sample from the fermeter of the maiden brewbot brew. Initially nice, but a real plasticy aftertaste. I had run a few hot water only runs through the system before hand, but didn't think to taste them. First stop in tracking it down was the 5 meters of new hose from the mains water tap to the HLT. Yep sure enough, drinking from the end of it didn't taste great. It is clear, but reinforced hose rated for high temps from Bunnings. They were out of plain clear PVC hose when I was there.
I have made some recent changes to the plumbing to make the mash tun prime the pump better, and to try to detect when the pump begins to run dry.

The plan was to run the output of the pump up high in a loop of silicon hose, and measure the conductivity across the hose. When the pump starts to run dry gravity would cause the remaining fluid to drain making the loop empty and conductivity drop.

So last night Brad came over and we did side by side brews.

I filled the brewbot HLT by bucket this time. We ran some water though the brewbot and let it heat up. It tasted like hot water, not plastic, so on with the brew. Nothing in the brewbot itself was causing the previous plastic taste, it was just that new hose.

The problem was that running the hot water through had pre-heated the system, so my strike temp was higher than expected.

Also, changing the plumbing to make the mash tun better prime the pump has upset the HLT priming the pump. Bugger. But recirc and sparge went of without a hitch.

Well execpt for the controller not detecting when the mush tun was empty and pump should be turned off. Seems the loop didn't drain as well as I expected it to. The pump seems to hold a column of fluid there that doesn't move. Back to the drawing board. Maybe just bite the bullet and get or make a propper flow sensor. Maybe like this: http://www.overclockers.com/tips1114/ Unless anyone has any good ideas?

Okay so the exciting new bit was the first automated hop addition. Worked as expected.
We then went inside for dinner. Didn't hear the second one go off. Checked a little later. The platform had rotated as expected, but the hops were still wedged in the cup. Doh! It seems there was enough steam getting to them that they swelled up and stuck in the cup. So that hop addition was late by a few minutes.

I've got some other ideas for different designs for the hop dropper.

So more R&D time needed. Much to the distaste of SWMBO.

Great work Zizzle.

I've been able to use pellet hops ok with my dropper. I think the key was to minimise steam getting up the chute. If you check out the photo at: Arnie's dropper
you can see how the chute ends up at an angle over the kettle. The bottom of the opening is closer to the kettle centre than the top of the opening - which means that the steam has to bend around a corner to get up into the chute. You will also see a bathroom extraction fan sitting behind the kettle. These two things keep the steam from clogging up the works. The other thing I'd suggest is make the hop carriers straight sided.

I know what you mean about R&D. I've done lots of background working out since about 2000. The parts that are working on my machine are now reliable - but it is a long and slow process getting towards a more fully automated machine.

BUT as was once famously said:

One small step for man ... one giant step for mankind

cheers :beer:

 

[bugwan]

Congratulation Zizzle. That dream is now a tangible reality! Great to see it all come together bit by bit. Nice idea on the hop dropper - I had something else entirely in my mind, which wouldn't have worked so well...now that I think about it!

Looking forward to further discoveries and pics (like everyone else).

Shame about the taste of the maiden brew. I hope you've got some stocks to see you through the testing process?

 

[fraser_john]

WOW. I have not seen this thread before and just read the whole thing, just plain old great work and talent!

Now, pack the whole thing up, take it to China and get them made up there and resell the whole thing via your own website. That would take the edge off the US$2300 systems that MoreBeer.com sells!

 

[ArnieW]

Hey Zizzle,

I've been doing a bit of looking around and found this flow switch. Looks reasonable although not sure about the 15mm copper pipe bit - but I can find a way around that if needed.
Farnell flow switch

I've ordered one, so when it arrives I'll let you know.

cheers, Arnie

 

[Andyd]

Zizzle,

How do you manage clearing trapped air in transfer lines? I've got a problem with my set-up where because of my spigot configuration I wind up with air trapped in the top of the lines that prevents a good flow from being established.



I have a breather on the other side of the pump, but that doesn't allow the air in the top of the tube to escape.

Thanks ,

Andy

 

[Zizzle]

Good find Arnie, I was looking at a couple from rs. They don't seem do like me linking to them, but I will try anyway.

One plastic one 15mm, for about $37, the other brass for about $80.

http://www.rsaustralia.com/cgi-bin/bv/rsww...heID=aunetscape
http://www.rsaustralia.com/cgi-bin/bv/rsww...heID=aunetscape

Search for 0257076 & 0256562 if the links don't work. They also have 22mm versions of both.

Andy, yep I have the same problem, although last time I ran brewbot it primed fine. My planned solution is to modify my plumbing so the the pickup in the very bottom of the vessel, not coming in from the side like in your drawing.

 

[Andyd]

I've done this now for my mash tun, but I'll still have trouble with the kettle, which is gas fired from the bottom... do you have a plan to overcome flaming the spigot directly?

Andy

 

[Zizzle]

Electric boiler, and I don't pump from my kettle, just run into a cube for no-chill.

 

[Andyd]

Electric boiler, and I don't pump from my kettle, just run into a cube for no-chill.

Ah - fair enough then. I'll have to look into alternatives. I've been thinking about having a bleed valve in the boiler outlet. Yet another valve to actuate though... *sigh*

 

[ArnieW]

Good find Arnie, I was looking at a couple from rs. They don't seem do like me linking to them, but I will try anyway.

One plastic one 15mm, for about $37, the other brass for about $80.

http://www.rsaustralia.com/cgi-bin/bv/rsww...heID=aunetscape
http://www.rsaustralia.com/cgi-bin/bv/rsww...heID=aunetscape

Search for 0257076 & 0256562 if the links don't work. They also have 22mm versions of both.

Andy, yep I have the same problem, although last time I ran brewbot it primed fine. My planned solution is to modify my plumbing so the the pickup in the very bottom of the vessel, not coming in from the side like in your drawing.

Yep, the links didn't work. But searching on the part number was ok.

cheers, Arnie

 

[Brad_G]

Brewers,

Ive seen this thing working. Its a real sight to see. Yes, there are a few slight bugs to iron out, but jeeeeeez, its amazing to watch: Sparge/recirc happens right before your eyes. No jugs or worrying about splash etc. Not only that, but the consistancy potential is unbelievable. Imagine knowing that your next brew is gonna be exactly like the last! I was really impressed to see the whole thing in action. I should pull my finger out and get something happening myself.

brad

 

[homekegger1]

Zizzle,

Mate what an amazing set-up. I wish you all the best on getting it right. Obviously you work in electronics or the like. I just showed SWMBO and she lowered her head and said enough is enough. I guess I need to buy her chocolates or something. Perhaps wait a few month's and just slowly aquire bits and pieces.

Love the work mate.

Cheers

HK

 

[ant]

I know you guys are looking at flow switches as a solution, but Omega offer these nylon body, rated to 100C flow meters for US$86? They have a nickel plated brass option for $170 too, but that's starting to get pretty pricy, and the temp range is not as good (only to 88C). I'm not even going near the s/s versions h34r:

I've been thinking of a flow meter preferentially over a flow switch because it should allow me to interface direct with a PLC (I asusme it could interface just as easily with a PC based setup), will allow me to set an alarm based on low flow rates, and when in combination with a solenoid, can manage multi-step flows (ie X L for mash-in, X L for sparge) without the hassle of having a constant level switch in the HLT (ie allows me to vary volume by recipe). Will use in combination with a low level float switch in HLT to avoid exposing element. Does this all sound like reasonable logic?

 

[Zizzle]

Something else useful I just stumbled upon: http://www.acroname.com/robotics/parts/R48-IR12.html

 

[tangent]

great thread guys :beer:

regarding the hopping, does anyone remember the device called the Sir Hopsalot?

there's a reference here but i can't find a photo anymore.

Some places use them in APAs and IPAs to add a continuous feed of pellets into the kettle. I can't remember how it worked though. Might be able to rig up something similar on a timer or something.