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Paleman

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Sorry if off topic. Ive just embarked on my first starter, using a stir plate. 500 mls of wort to 1040 og. Using one packet of Lallemund West Coast dry yeast. Sitting in my fermenter fridge at 24C. To be pitched two days later.

Its for an All Grain American Ale, which will start at around 1050 i hope. Is this all ok for the experienced around here? I was very anal in being sanitary.
 

grandadrob

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I make a starter with safale 04 dry yeast - it only takes 2 hours (no stirring or agitating) before pitching. I add a tiny amount of vitamin C and yeast nutrient to the starter.
 

Paleman

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I make a starter with safale 04 dry yeast - it only takes 2 hours (no stirring or agitating) before pitching. I add a tiny amount of vitamin C and yeast nutrient to the starter.
Vitamin C. Thats new on me. Why Vitamin C?

Do you make a malt starter or rehydrate in water?
 

grandadrob

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In water. All yeasts - including sourdough - like slightly acid conditions and vit C is acidic and anti-oxidant - and your beer won't catch a cold...........
 

grandadrob

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Forgot to say - use bottled water for the starter - chlorine and chloramine in tap water inhibit yeast growth.
 

MHB

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Agree on getting rid of any Chlorine and adding a bit of nutrient.
Curious, couple of questions
What form is your vitamin C in?
Is this your own idea or do you have some reference?
Mark
 

Paleman

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Agree on getting rid of any Chlorine and adding a bit of nutrient.
Curious, couple of questions
What form is your vitamin C in?
Is this your own idea or do you have some reference?
Mark
Mark could you peruse my post above and pick any dents? I'm willing to learn to make the best beer i possibly can.
 

Paleman

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In water. All yeasts - including sourdough - like slightly acid conditions and vit C is acidic and anti-oxidant - and your beer won't catch a cold...........
I like it, no harm in learning new methods.
 

grandadrob

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I buy pure vitamin C powder in 1 kg packs. If I get any hint of cold like symptoms I take 10 gm (10,000 mg) daily. Always have done. Can't prove its efficacy without having a spare me not taking vitamin C. I am 75 years old but not a health fanatic. This morning's pulse oximeter readings were 97 and 60......
 

Paleman

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I buy pure vitamin C powder in 1 kg packs. If I get any hint of cold like symptoms I take 10 gm (10,000 mg) daily. Always have done. Can't prove its efficacy without having a spare me not taking vitamin C. I am 75 years old but not a health fanatic. This morning's pulse oximeter readings were 97 and 60......
Youre 75 so doing something right.
 

Paleman

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I believe love of music keeps me sane.
 

grandadrob

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Youre 75 so doing something right

I drink too much beer (70 units a week) am overweight (5 foot 11 95 kilos ) grow my own tomatoes peppers chillis carrots onions potatoes and binge on salted peanuts................. 50 minute walk every morning....
 

MHB

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Ok so adding Vitamin C is your own idea, not one I would be recommending without a lot better understanding of exactly what you are up to.
Two most common forms of Vitamin C are Ascorbic Acid and Sodium Ascorbate, still curious which you are using, it should say on the label.
These days there is a lot of debate around whether its even necessary to rehydrate (see the E2U range from Fermentis), I would be seriously careful moving the pH of the rehydrating medium too far from neutral without knowing exactly what you are doing. Look up Hydrogen Pump.

Paleman
Personally I don't think there is a "RIGHT!" answer. The drying process chosen by the manufacture, the exact strain of yeast, what's in the media... Not being precious about it, but I think the best advice is to do exactly what the manufacturer says. If you think about it they have a vested interest in you making good beer, if you are happy with the results you will buy their products again, if you aren't odds on you will shop with a competitor.
They want your business so they will usually give good effective advice.
Mark
 

Grmblz

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Sorry if off topic. Ive just embarked on my first starter, using a stir plate. 500 mls of wort to 1040 og. Using one packet of Lallemund West Coast dry yeast. Sitting in my fermenter fridge at 24C. To be pitched two days later.
Its for an All Grain American Ale, which will start at around 1050 i hope. Is this all ok for the experienced around here? I was very anal in being sanitary.
I think grandadrob might be confusing re-hydration and making a starter. you can't make a starter in 2 hrs, and fwiw 2hrs is way too long for rehydration.
Take a look at: https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/wp...ctices-RehydrationProtocol-A4-_printbleed.pdf I assume being the manufacturers that they have some idea on how to treat their yeast,
and this from Fermentis (Safale):
TODAY A STUDY DEMONSTRATES THAT THE USE OF ACTIVE DRY YEASTS (ADY) is very easy and does not necessarily include a rehydration step. To the contrary, the ADY can advantageously be immediately put in contact with the wort into the fermentation vessel (direct pitch). Several rehydration and direct pitch conditions do not show any significant differences in terms of viability and vitality of the ADY. This concept is protected under the E2UTM umbrella.
AFTER REHYDRATION, BACTERIAL CONTAMINATION CAN DEVELOP IN THE SLURRY. For that reason, we recommend a rehydration in sterile hopped wort compared to sterile unhopped wort or sterile water. The iso-alpha acids (ideally above 5ppm, the equivalent of 5 IBU) present in the media will protect it from Gram + bacterial development and will not affect the rehydration process of the ADY.

For the whole story: https://fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Brochure_Tips_and_Tricks_BAT_BD.pdf

You rehydrate if it's "best practice" this is determined by the manufacturer, you make a starter to increase yeast numbers, either because you have a high gravity wort (in your case 1050, it's marginal) or because you have low numbers (dregs from a bottle, or a suspect packet, old/badly stored) a much simpler solution for high gravity is just pitch two packets, rehydrated or not according to the manufacturer.
Sorry for the war and peace but yeast production methods (indeed the yeasts themselves) have undergone massive changes in the last few years, and what was once deemed essential might now be detrimental.
 

grandadrob

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I feel I am wandering into outlaw country. I keep it simple. By "re-hydrating" I prove the yeast is "alive" [I use the bulk pack of SO4, kept in fridge] . Because 40 years ago I made up a kit, sprinkled on the dried yeast sachet and nothing happened. GOOD MORNING AUSTRALASIA !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

BrewLizard

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You crack me up, Grandma Rob. That stream of consciousness flowing out of an atrophied, floating cerebrum on 70 standards of ethanol a week certainly leads to some hilarious posts. Don't ever change. :p
 

MHB

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40 years ago, proving yeast was a damn good idea! Even 20 years ago, dry yeast was very much less reliable than it is today.
Speaking of following manufacturer's advice, read on your 500g block what Fermentis have to say about how it should be stored after opening.
Mark
 

grandadrob

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mY yeast is in original packaging and after taking out 15 gm for a 22 litre brew ( money no objective) I squeeze out the air, fold the pack down and selotape it up then back in the fridge. Brewlizard - I also make my own sourdough bread, xmas puddings, marmalade and damson jam. The point I am subtly making - maybe too subtle for you lot, is that it is very hard to spoil a brew. 22:27 here so goodnight one and all...
 

GregTheBrewer

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Guys, why are you making starters with dry yeast? It's not necessary. Check out the manufacturer's websites. The whole purpose of making a starter is to increase the cell count so your pitch rate is correct depending on the OG and style of beer you are brewing. Liquid yeast cell counts progressively decrease over time, so you usually need to make a starter (size depending...calcs such as Brewer's Friend or Mr. Malty are great) to account for this. But dry yeast doesn't need a starter. There are usually plenty of cells...all you need to do is rehydrate it, and even then many manufacturers still say you can pitch it directly into your wort. I personally always make a starter when I am using liquid yeasts, and I rehydrate before pitching when I am using dry yeast. Always end up with quick starting and vigourous fermentation 'cos the yeast is healthy. At least, that's my two bob's worth!
 

BrewLizard

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As said ad-infinitum by those making starters with dry yeast for the past 20 years of homebrew-related talk on the internet, the purpose is the same: to build higher cell counts.

This is either to enable a single dry packet to do a high-gravity brew (rather than 2+) or to overbuild and keep leftover yeast.

Starters aren’t necessary with liquid yeast either. Just use more money instead.
 
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