Yeast Of The Week- 29/09/10 - Wyeast 1469-pc

[np1962]

Following Haysies thread regards a yeast sub forum I found there was not all that many Yeast of the Week threads so here goes.
With all due respect to Stuster and P&C.

Let's start with what was a very popular PC release last time around and is due for release this October, once more as a limited release.

From Wyeast

Wyeast 1469-PC West Yorkshire Ale Yeast
Beer Styles: Blonde Ale, English IPA, Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale), Oatmeal Stout, Southern English Brown, Special/Best/Premium Bitter, Standard/Ordinary Bitter, Sweet Stout
Profile: This strain produces ales with a full chewy malt flavor and character, but finishes dry, producing famously balanced beers. Expect moderate nutty and stone-fruit esters. Best used for the production of cask-conditioned bitters, ESB and mild ales. Reliably flocculent, producing bright beer without filtration.


Alc. Tolerance 9% ABV
Flocculation high
Attenuation 67-71%
Temp. Range 64-72F (18-22C)

What styles do you use it in, what styles does it just not work for?
Any tricks for how to manage it - fermentation temperatures, starter sizes, re-using it by top-cropping or using the slurry, does it need rousing or will it conk out in high gravity beers?
Are there comparable yeasts from other manufacturers?
Anything else do you like or dislike about this yeast?

Cheers
Nige

 

[Bribie G]

A good starting point to understand this yeast is to read Samuel Smith's article on Yorkshire Stone Square brewing:

In my experience 1469 ticks all the boxes, including its habit of rising to the surface in little icebergs (yeastbergs) that look like a mass of floating popcorn. I don't know how true to breed it actually is but I generally run it at a couple of degrees below 'normal' ale yeasts, at 16-17 degrees as in a traditional stone square.
Makes a divine TTL style beer, I haven't used it in any other styles.

To emulate the pumping and rousing, I give the wort a good beating morning and night with a :

It loves being aerated but I don't do it beyond day 3, then seal it up and don't touch it until I get that popcorn after about another 4 days, then rack off and collect the popcorn, cold crash for a week with gelatine and polyclar, then keg off. This year I might omit the racking and just finish the primary by sticking straight in fridge.

 

[Dazza_devil]

I am planning to use this yeast in a Northern English Brown style Ale. From the Guidelines I understand that the Northern Brown Ale is considered to be drier and more hop-orientated than the Southern Brown style, nutty rather than caramel. I have something like Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Ale in mind, which I believe to be a Northern Brown. From previous advise I was going to use 1469 because this is apparently the yeast Sam Smith uses.
Why is it then that Wyeast recommend this yeast for a Southern Brown but not for a Northern Brown? It finishes dry and it apparently gives a nutty impression from the esters which would be contrary to the guidelines.

 

[Shed101]

A good starting point to understand this yeast is to read Samuel Smith's article on Yorkshire Stone Square brewing:

In my experience 1469 ticks all the boxes, including its habit of rising to the surface in little icebergs (yeastbergs) that look like a mass of floating popcorn. I don't know how true to breed it actually is but I generally run it at a couple of degrees below 'normal' ale yeasts, at 16-17 degrees as in a traditional stone square.
Makes a divine TTL style beer, I haven't used it in any other styles.

To emulate the pumping and rousing, I give the wort a good beating morning and night with a :View attachment 41141

It loves being aerated but I don't do it beyond day 3, then seal it up and don't touch it until I get that popcorn after about another 4 days, then rack off and collect the popcorn, cold crash for a week with gelatine and polyclar, then keg off. This year I might omit the racking and just finish the primary by sticking straight in fridge.

Brilliant - thanks. I have a cube of TTL with this yeast's name on it!

Incidentally, back in England Bentley's YB was my local's regular cheapie bitter ten years' ago, it tasted good enough, but i'd never realised it had a link to the original Squares.

 

[Dazza_devil]

A good starting point to understand this yeast is to read Samuel Smith's article on Yorkshire Stone Square brewing:

In my experience 1469 ticks all the boxes, including its habit of rising to the surface in little icebergs (yeastbergs) that look like a mass of floating popcorn. I don't know how true to breed it actually is but I generally run it at a couple of degrees below 'normal' ale yeasts, at 16-17 degrees as in a traditional stone square.
Makes a divine TTL style beer, I haven't used it in any other styles.

To emulate the pumping and rousing, I give the wort a good beating morning and night with a :View attachment 41141

It loves being aerated but I don't do it beyond day 3, then seal it up and don't touch it until I get that popcorn after about another 4 days, then rack off and collect the popcorn, cold crash for a week with gelatine and polyclar, then keg off. This year I might omit the racking and just finish the primary by sticking straight in fridge.

I think I'll try a Landlord clone instead, gotta good recipe BribieG?

 

[Shed101]

I think I'll try a Landlord clone instead, gotta good recipe BribieG?

Here's the one Screwy and I did a couple of weekends ago, there's a Dr Smurto one around too I think...

 

[argon]

I think I'll try a Landlord clone instead, gotta good recipe BribieG?

And Here's the one I did last weekend.. still in the cubes waiting for some 1469 this weekend.

After a bitchload of research and alot of annoying more experienced brewers... RdeVjun, BribieG and DrSmurto I came to the general consensu of the 97% Golden Promise and 3% Cararoma. Hop schedule was the only thing wasn't 100% on but settled for half a pack of each (1/2 90g packs) for IBU of just under 35.

really looking forward to using this yeast for the first time...

 

[Bribie G]

I think I'll try a Landlord clone instead, gotta good recipe BribieG?

Yup, can't go past the good doctor's recipe, but try to get the Golden Promise malt if Ross (or other suppliers) have it in at the moment. Sam Smith would definitely use a very similar yeast, if you look at the rear label of the Nut Brown bottle there is actually a picture of the yeast being pumped and sprayed back into the square.

Often I take American's comments about styles with a wee grain of salt, for example some of the BJCP guidelines for UK ales where then just don't seem to GET it that many UK bitters are not really very bitter at all. "Bitterness should predominate yadayada" sort of notes. I'd go for a London ale yeast for Southern Browns, that's where they were born.


Edit: if you want a similar beer to a TTL but a fair bit stronger then might I present my Superlandlord - I used Wyeast Ringwood in the DB because my 1469 had run out but happy days are here again. Also I notice that the Styrians are listed as 60 mins, ooops make that 10 mins.

 

[Dazza_devil]

And Here's the one I did last weekend.. still in the cubes waiting for some 1469 this weekend.

After a bitchload of research and alot of annoying more experienced brewers... RdeVjun, BribieG and DrSmurto I came to the general consensu of the 97% Golden Promise and 3% Cararoma. Hop schedule was the only thing wasn't 100% on but settled for half a pack of each (1/2 90g packs) for IBU of just under 35.

really looking forward to using this yeast for the first time...

I'm might be different and work around a partial with MO, Brown Malt and a touch of Pale Chocoalte, perhaps.
Unless I can get the GP by the time I order.

This will be a good yeast to have in house for sure, I better get one of those BribieG beaters too.

 

[Fourstar]

100% golden promise with a carmelisation of middle runnings say 5L down two 500ml and add it back to the main boil.

Use the Dr's hopping schedule and you're in business. After making and tastng the smurto recipe compared to a genuine landlord i think that it just doesnt match as a clone. It is however a great recipe.

 

[Shed101]

compared to a genuine landlord i think that it just doesnt match as a clone. It is however a great recipe.

Not being critical, but are you comparing to bottled or cask TTL?

I'm sure he was trying to hit the cask. And having had a fair bit of cask (and a lot less bottles) i'd say there's a pretty big difference. I don't get the same caramel flavours that most UK beers seem to inherit on their way to Oz in bottles... I guess the aeration out of handpumps makes a fair difference, too.

 

[raven19]

I find this is another good yeast to top crop.

Have used it in a number of beers, and i keep some on slants so the 'limited release' does not effect me if I wish to use it.

Never had issues with off flavours with well handled versions of the yeast, but it can take over any headspace in the fermentor if not temperature controlled.... even then it can still fill airlocks and blow off tubes.

 

[WarmBeer]

A good starting point to understand this yeast is to read Samuel Smith's article on Yorkshire Stone Square brewing:

In my experience 1469 ticks all the boxes, including its habit of rising to the surface in little icebergs (yeastbergs) that look like a mass of floating popcorn. I don't know how true to breed it actually is but I generally run it at a couple of degrees below 'normal' ale yeasts, at 16-17 degrees as in a traditional stone square.
Makes a divine TTL style beer, I haven't used it in any other styles.

To emulate the pumping and rousing, I give the wort a good beating morning and night with a :View attachment 41141

It loves being aerated but I don't do it beyond day 3, then seal it up and don't touch it until I get that popcorn after about another 4 days, then rack off and collect the popcorn, cold crash for a week with gelatine and polyclar, then keg off. This year I might omit the racking and just finish the primary by sticking straight in fridge.

So, would people consider this a "high maintenance" yeast?

I'm not at all keen on opening up my fermenter twice a day to rouse the yeast. Once I pitch, it's "into the fermenting fridge" and forget about it for 2 weeks.

Other than that, I'm keen to try this yeast out, just waiting on G&G getting it in...

 

[beerbrewer76543]

I had one batch go to sleep at 1.020 and had to shake the fermenter up a bit a couple of times to get it to drop lower

Anyone else had similar experiences?

Maybe I didn't aerate the wort enough to start with... :huh:

 

[raven19]

So, would people consider this a "high maintenance" yeast?

Not at all, imo. Bribie has his methods as stated above which are fine and dandy, but I have not had any issues with stalled ferments with this yeast, simply pitching yeast slurry into the fermentor, then emptying a nochill cube of wort onto that yeast with the accompanying splashing that occurs.

Seal up and leave for a week or so (unless I need to top crop some of the yeast).

 

[Bribie G]

Like anything in brewing, you can go the basic middle of the road approach (simple infusion vs stepped mash, salts additions vs just plain old water etc) and will still end up with a fine drop. I do the thrashing etc to fine tune the beer 'to style' but as long as you aerate the wort well to start with, I've heard lots of people just running it sealed up and producing an acceptable beer with no problems.

 

[jbirbeck]

massively overused and misunderstood yeast IMHO.

Don't get me wrong, I like it it works well leaving a full malty flavour but finishes dry. superb. But having tasted a number of beers using this yeast people have got to realise it needs to be fermented on the cool side, even sub 18, or all you'll get is stonefruit type esters. I don't mind a bit of peach but I don't expect to smell nothing but peach in a mild for example...go easy on the esters and its brilliant.

 

[DUANNE]

i agree with the above ,i stopped uing this yeast because of that peach type ester it can get.i was getting it fermenting at 17. it is a good yeast but the ester thing just seems to stand out after using it a few times.

 

[Bribie G]

Exactly. Because it's a special release, many brewers reckon it's some sort of galactic silver bullet that is only released every two years because, being the holy grail of all brewing then a more frequent release would render all other yeasts irrelevant.

Not so, as I said in post #2 it's a representative of a class of yeast that evolved in response to a very narrow brewing technique, the stone square, and in using it I (anectdotally) have studied up on the history of the thing and try to replicate its preferred mode of operation. A bit like buying a puppy such as a Weimashitzu, it will have certain upbringing requirements "likes chasing sticks but not too good with children" so if you have kids, better to buy a lab or something more appropriate.

I wouldn't use it for a Belgian Wit but sure as hell use it for a TTL.

 

[RdeVjun]

This is my house strain, 80% of my beer is brewed with it, but not much more to add that hasn't already been covered. Never had a batch fail to fully attenuate, in fact hyperattenuation seems more likely unless particular care is taken not to mash too low in search of the dry profile (guilty you honour!), but it is still reasonably forgiving like that regardless of how low it finishes. I don't mind the stonefruit as a complement to late Styrian, I think they go well together, however it can dominate at higher ferment temps along with a couple of other mildly unpleasant flavours, 17- 18 seems about right for mine. The malty but dry profile really appeals to me, but I've not made a mild with it that I was reasonably satisfied with, but mostly I do ESBs. Speedy top cropper, can also pitch and forget for a fortnight and that suits me down to the ground, no real diacetyl problem either. Enjoy!

Edit: I tried to English Nanny (i.e. aerate- give it a good thrashing at least every day! ) a la BribieG but sadly poor planning and laziness got the better of me... :unsure: