Williamswarn Personal Brewery

[Cocko]

How much is this fukin thing, I didn't see a price posted, but I didn't think it would be that much.

http://www.williamswarn.com/Shop

 

[Not For Horses]

6 grand new Zealand. What's that, like 37 bucks?

I have to say though, the problems and solutions section does read quite a lot like an infomercial. I don't like it when advertisers try to convince me that I'm an *****.
It's very shiny and nice but it smells an awful lot like a cold funny-shaped bucket.

 

[shaunous]

http://www.williamswarn.com/Shop

Sweet Odins Raven!

 

[Camo6]

You could always drop the CPBF and save yourself five hunge. Whothewhatnow?!

 

[tiprya]

The fermentation side of this is very impressive, love the control and the clarification in one vessel.

The wort production side is another story though...

Does anyone know if 23 degrees under pressure gives a similar amount of ester production as 18 degrees without pressure?

And I'm still perturbed by using sodium perc as a no rinse sanitiser, this goes against everything I've heard up until now.

 

[MastersBrewery]

In regard to ester production, it seems to be reduced, however early tastings will show higher than expected hop bitterness, this drops to normal levels over the following 7 days. Diacetyl production is actually increased in the first 36hrs, but clears up very quickly. The pressures stated don't quite make sense to me from everything else I've read 7psi is optimal for yeast growth and at 15.5psi the yeast cell walls begin to damage. Our cousins in the States, on HBT have been using and testing/ researching, pressurised fermenting since 2009. Using either sanke or corny kegs. Most of us eventually move to controlled temp, maybe the next step in that evolution is adding controlled pressure.
Food for thought: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/closed-system-pressurized-fermentation-technique-44344/

 

[indica86]

No dry hopping possible either from what I can see.

 

[punkin]

No dry hopping possible either from what I can see.

:blink:

A $7k fermenter that won't allow dry hopping?

 

[Parks]

Pretty sure there's a FAQ item that says you can dry hop but it introduces the possibility of infection.

 

[wobbly]

• On the brewing under pressure question Ian Williams answers this in the FAQ section where he talks about yeast being subjected to 1 bar (15psi) at the bottom of a 10 meter (30ft) conical as is commonly used by commercial breweries without adverse side effects and sites the positives such as faster fermentation times with reduced esters etc.
• As far as dry hopping goes you can/could do this in a couple of ways - add it to the fermenter at the start of fermentation (but yeast action could strip most of the aroma out) or possibly add some hop tea to the sediment control inlet and flush it into the fermentation chamber or add some hop pellets or flowers to the sediment bottle post clarification
• As I have stated before for me quality craft brewing enjoyment is designing and refining the wort (grain bill, hop schedule, mash schedule etc) and fermentation stage (yeast type fermentation temp and duration etc) and then using the best technology available to complete those functions to produce the beer I am trying to and like. It's not about standing around and stiring a pot of boiling wort it's about gaining those extra 1% that make a good beer into a great beer
• I used to brew in a " bucket in a bucket" progressed to an "all in one brewery" then a three vessel system and then a Braumeister, initial fermentation was at ambient temp, then a wet rag over the fermenter to try and control temps before migrating to a temp controlled fridge and at each step along the chain the finished product got better
• Just as the Braumeister made a quantum step change in wort production and repeatability I believe that the WW will do the same for/with the fermentation phase and provide a number of 1% improvements such as no exposure to Oxygen ever throughout the process, Natural carbonation, efficient yeast and sediment removal, the ability to try different fermentation temperature and pressure parameters just to suggest a few I can think of.
• Most on this site willing use technology to try and improve their end product such as stir plates instead of Pet bottles, Refractrometers in stead of hydrometers, and of late Braumeisters or their clones

Not trying to convince others to follow or agree with my decision but would just wish that those that are bagging the system take the time to find out the facts and or base their comments on actual experiences rather than emotive knee jerk responses based on little or no facts

my 2c worth

Cheers

wobbly

 

[shaunous]

I'd say most are against it because they can't afford it, or there wives wouldn't let them buy it if they could afford.
But maybe some other reasons also.

 

[manticle]

If it's fermenting under pressure, is there the same tendency for evaporation of volatiles (in particular dry hop) or is it less of an issue.

Ignorant question probably - my understanding of closed pressure systems is minimal.

 

[doon]

I guess it has to vent off excess pressure as you set it to a level you want, so that could cause loss of aroma etc

 

[punkin]

I'd say most are against it because they can't afford it, or there wives wouldn't let them buy it if they could afford.
But maybe some other reasons also.

I have more than enough money in the bank to afford it, my wife doesn't tell me how i spend my money the same as i don't tell her how to spend hers.

I'm not against it at all, it has no bearing on my life if the OP purchases it or not.

For me the drawbacks far outweigh the positives, OP has come out on the other side of the balance.
It's a personal choice after weighing the +- and he doesn't have to justify it to anyone but himself.

Benifits;

Controlled temperature
ability to ferment under pressure
Repeatabilty
compact
serves the beer


Drawbacks;

costs thousands of dollars
serves only one beer at a time meaning either a kegerator or bottles
a week with no beer if using it as standalone every brew (for me would be 3-4 days beer, 7 days dry)
can get a much cheaper conical fermenter (or 3) and kegerator that will be able to be used as a pressurised fermenter and have all the benifits and few of the drawbacks.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Does it really have to vent off any more gas than a normal fermentation does? You're building up the pressure by trapping in the produced CO2 that would otherwise be escaping, so in terms of mass balancing there should be in fact less aroma "stripped" than a standard homebrew fermenter at atmospheric pressure.

 

[Ross]

Wobbly, you posted the topic on a public forum & asked for discussion, so accept you're going to get responses at every level.

You are saying you are trying to achieve the best beer possible; there are seriously better & more practical ways of doing it than this unit & though it appears not to be an issue to you, much cheaper as well.
If it ticks all your boxes, & obviously it must tick most of them as you've purchased it, good luck & hope it delivers you what you are seeking & I look forward to hearing your reviews.


Cheers Ross

Edit: Punkin posted while I was typing, agree 100% with his reply.

 

[Wortgames]

I'm actually not 'against' the machine. I live for beer bling. As long as everyone understands what it is and what it isn't. And by 'everyone' I don't just mean the OP (who clearly does), I mean anyone else who might find their way to this discussion. Correct me if that isn't a big part what of public forums do.

A cashed-up beginner might easily form the opinion that this sort of thing is the Rolls-Royce of brewing gear, and that money is the only thing holding every brewer back from owning one. And that dumping a can of the manufacturer's goop and pressing the 'go' button will make them master brewers at the wave of a chequebook. Hopefully the 'naysayers' have put up reasonable arguments to balance that out.

It's a really nice fermenter with some cool tricks. But let's face it, it is far too clever for kit & kilo brewing. It's like selling a $6,000 espresso machine and capsules of Nescafe Blend 43 to go in it.

 

[dent]

• On the brewing under pressure question Ian Williams answers this in the FAQ section where he talks about yeast being subjected to 1 bar (15psi) at the bottom of a 10 meter (30ft) conical as is commonly used by commercial breweries without adverse side effects and sites the positives such as faster fermentation times with reduced esters etc.

I disagree with this perspective. While you could measure a pressure at the bottom of a large conical, by no means is this equivalent to the same pressure of CO2 closed fermenting will give you - the amount of dissolved CO2 will be completely different.

Not that I am against fermenting under pressure, I do it all the time.

 

[wobbly]

Don't profess to know much about fermenting under pressure unlike those that do it day in and day out as a profession but this is what Ian Williams has to say and I acknowledge this quote/post doesn't address completely the question of the impact on the amount of dissolved CO2

Q10: Does the yeast suffer under pressure?
A: Not at all.1 bar pressure (14.5psi) is the same as the pressure at the bottom of a 10m tank. Beer is made in 10m tanks everywhere globally. So at the bottom of such a tank its 1 bar, at the 9m mark its 0.9bar, at the 8m mark is 0.8 bar etc. So yeast circulates around the tank and ferments fine under this pressure, every day in breweries around the world. If this wasn’t true you wouldn’t have mega-breweries making zillions of litres in huge tanks. Too much pressure is an issue but 1 bar is nothing. We have even fermented at 3 bar.

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

I have to agree with dent, the 15 psi comes from the weight of the fermenting wort as the formula of static pressure (P = density x gravity x height).

So whilst this static pressure is applied by the atmosphere, closing the vessel and having the CO2 production will build more pressure up, which in turn will exert more pressure on the yeast. To what extent I CBF working it out and will assume someone on here knows the volumes of CO2 production per L fermenting wort typically?