Williamswarn Personal Brewery

[Camo6]

It's not even a true extract beer, it's a kit and kilo.

@OP It is a blingy way of brewing kit beer. Have you tasted beer form it?

Atleast we are assured it won't taste like dead yeast like you'd find with regular homebrew. :blink:

@Wobbly. For the price of the unit I could find so much more ( :icon_drool2: ) to buy to improve my beer while still having control over ferment temps, carbonation levels etc. By the look of it most of these parameters are set and unchangeable. But this machine may suit your needs and hey, it's your money. But wouldn't you spit chips if the beer came out tasting like homebrew! Ian Williams may be an expert brewer but he's also trying to sell a product he's probably outlaid a lot of money towards.
If you do go down this track be sure to let us all know how it goes. It would look good on the kitchen bench and would put the wife's kenwood to shame, that's for sure.

 

[indica86]

The yeast under the lid is an 11g pack of Fermentis US-05 ale yeast.

Ferment at 23°C/73°F.

Well, all I have learnt recently is wrong then.

 

[manticle]

It's not even a true extract beer, it's a kit and kilo.

@OP It is a blingy way of brewing kit beer. Have you tasted beer form it?

No - it's a bling fermenter, conditioner and packager.

Wort production is separate but you can theoretically ferment any wort within including extract or AG. It would be a much better unit if it included the option of producing AG wort as part of the whole.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

I'm waiting for the Williamsbraumasterwarn Personal Brewery.

 

[wobbly]

A lot of the comments seem to miss the point that I plan to produce my own fresh wort in a BM to then ferment and carbonate in the WW

You the individual designs the beer - grain bill, hop schedule, mash schedule etc. and then use a BM (or clone!!) to do the work (repeatability)

Fermenting the fresh wort is just another step - Yeast strain, temperature and time etc. again you make the choices and set the parameters (program) for the WW just like for the BM (clone). You can ferment at what ever temperature you want to between 1C and 40C and under what ever CO2 pressure (within reason) you want to.

There is no rule that states you should take the beer off the yeast after 4 days, you could leave it on the yeast for a couple of weeks if that is your desire. What WW state (claim) is that if you were using US-05 on a wort OG of 1040 at 23c then fermentation would be completed within 4 days. If you were fermenting say a 1050 wort again using US-05 at say 18C then it would take a couple of days longer or you could use two packets of yeast and achieve the results in the 4 days

The WW dose what the BM does in a single vessel - fresh wort in for fermentation, clarification, carbonation and chilled beer out ready for serving and all this is done in a single vessel

On the comment that you could purchase a couple of glycol cooled conical's etc you still have to have a refrigeration source to cool the glycol and a pump to circulate it. Also you couldn't ferment under pressure for what ever benefits that provides you also need to clarify (filter) the beer and either keg or bottle and refrigerate for serving. Not saying that this would be an issue it would just involve more equipment and process steps to achieve the same result.

On the question of have I tried any beers form one of these machines I have sampled Roy's (TWOC) Pilsner and Kolsh brewed from the fresh wort kits he produces (and sells) in his 200lt BM and both were very good and superior to the beers I produce by traditional fermentation and bottle conditioning. And I acknowledge that my beers "may/could" be improved if I kegged!!

If you wanted to long term "condition" a beer you can still do that by bottling a beer from the WW prior to carrying out the clarification step

I also understand that it is one beer at a time unless you keg or bottle some of the output

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[indica86]

Well, that being the point and your money being yours why not hey?
Do post pics when it is running.

 

[tiprya]

So you're buying this instead of a fermentation fridge + keg fridge (but it can't do both at the same time).

Seems like a waste of money unless you're really short of space.

 

[TSMill]

With respect to recommended temperatures for fermentation, it's worth noting that this unit maintains the fermentation under pressure, which will offset the increase in esters associated with the higher temperature. Being conical base will also have some impact vs. a flat bottom barrel (not sure what though).

Having read through the website and the page comparing their system to homebrew, I think Ian is doing himself a slight disservice by implying that the latter constitutes a stale can with an out of date yeast, has no options for temperature control etc.

At least they have solved the age old debate of home brew vs. craft brew....theirs is personal brew.

Anyways, if you have the dosh I say buy 3...you need variety on tap.

 

[gordo_t]

I like it.

Looks neat, you already have the braumeister, why not go all out. Only as expensive as being a pack a day smoker for a yr or so
You'll be making some exceptional beers.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

I haven't had a close look but is there a way to transfer to a keg under pressure? that way you could just treat it purely as a fermentation unit (with a tap for tasting during fermentation) with your own kegerator.

knock the brews out on a BM, ferment/carbonate in the WS, dispense from kegerator. Very expensive, certainly, but if you had the cash but not the time, it'd be a pretty slick virtually automated system.

 

[Camo6]

Sounds like you've done your research Wobbly. I've been stricken with man-flu today so had a read up of their PDF and it does seem like a well thought out unit that allows a fair degree of control over temp and pressure. Being limited to one batch at a time would be a negative for me but I'm sure you could figure a way to transfer to kegs and run a separate kegerator if you were so inclined. I'd be interested to know if their co2 bottles are generic and what their clarification agent contained. As well as availability of these components.

Still, if I was to outlay that much on brewing equipment (not saying I haven't but it's been staggered over a few years h34r: ), it probably wouldn't be on this unit.

But I can't help but feel it's your duty to purchase one of these units and prove us naysayers wrong... with lots of pics and vids!

Cheers,

Cam.

 

[wobbly]

Answers to a couple of questions.

• Yes you can transfer under CO2 pressure to a keg and depending on the keg coupler type you might need to make up an adaptor.
• The CO2 bottle are not WW generic and you can use stock standard units if you choose. The Australian agent (Winequip Melbourne) can/will supply either a 2.6kg ($187) or 6kg ($220) unit. The WW comes with it's own pressure regulators as standard
• The clarifying agent is "Colloidal Silica Oxide" available at a number of outlets. TWOC has a product called "Sabisol 300" (I think or something like that) however my Dr Google search failed to find it so maybe I have the spelling incorrect. But in any event here is a link to a German product http://www.klebosol.com/applications/colloidal-silica-beverage/ that is widely used in beer clarification. I don't see why you couldn't use gelatine if you didn't mind animal products in your beer.

An interesting point in the manual that I read they use Sodium Percarbonate as a "no rinse sanitiser" on the basis that when mixed with water is gives of hydrogen peroxide everything I have read on this site talks about it being a good soaker/cleaner but not a "no rinse" sanitiser!!!

I would be interested in hearing any comments that others have to make about this practise

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[tiprya]

That practice, and many others in that document (e.g. fermenting at 23 degrees) is a half-assed approach to brewing.

It sounds like the pitch is 'easy' brewing, but if I was spending all that money, I wouldn't cut corners.

What is it about your braumeister beers now that arn't as good as the ones at TWOC you tried? I doubt this new machine will be the solution - it will be your processes, not spending more money.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Sodium Percarbonate is a no rinse sanitiser, but most preffer to rinse. It is also clasified under ANZFS as food safe

 

[Elz]

Don't own a car, or smoke or gamble, but did buy a WW (do still spend small fortune on craft beer!). Not for everyone but affords me the opportunity to brew what I believe is a high quality product in an town house. The build quality is second to none and the ability to precisely control aspects of the brew process has resulted in beers that are way above the commercial pig swill, but I am yet to reach a craft beer standard. However only six brews under my belt. Also plan to buy a BM (yes more expensive gadgets) but will produce a better wort. I have bottled some beers but find the 7 day brewing process means I can also sample other craft beers.
Agree not a gadget for everyone, but so far producing beaut beers and I love having a draft system situated in the kitchen. I guess that purchasing a WW and limiting my intake of craft beers I should break even in less then 4 years (one slab less of craft beer every fortnight = $70 x 26 = $1820 by 4 years equals $7280.)
Yeah yeah cheaper option out there.

 

[wobbly]

Tiprya

My comment re superior beers is two fold

• I haven't yet been able to master the technique to produce a first class Pilsner which the one from TWOC's set up was
• The main difference TWOC's beer vs mine is sediment vs no sediment

I'm not here to defend or champion WW but I would be interested to gain an insight into what technical or professional knowledge you use to base your comment "half assed approach to brewing " comment

As the above post by TSmill and numerous sites on the WWW point out fermenting under pressure off sets the increase in ester production associated with fermenting at higher temperatures so maybe there is some sound practice at play here and not just a "half assed approach to brewing"!!

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[TSMill]

Go hard, pair it up with one of these:

http://www.winepod.net/winepod/winepod-details.aspx

 

[Elz]

Go hard, pair it up with one of these:
http://www.winepod.net/winepod/winepod-details.aspx

Or as discussed on this forum one of these:
http://picobrew.com

 

[MastersBrewery]

From what I've read in this thread and note from the WW site as well as previous post from well respected community members, fermenting under pressure is an entirely different playing field, a lot of unwanted nasties created during ferment, drop out, or are not produce under pressured ferment. The problem brewers have with brewing at the higher end of a yeasts tolerance is the off flavours it produces, under pressure this isn't the case. Higher temp = faster ferment (this is why commercial breweries do it, it cost money if there weren't a return they wouldn't fork it out)

In another thread posted today one of the members has gotten himself a Rota Moulding fermenter which he uses as a pressured fermenter, same sort of shape just out of plastic.

Here's the tip with the availability of electronics (read BrewPI) and members willing to go out on their own to program/reprogram (matho's controller, Edak's controllers and others) such control devices to allow for pressure sensors, it can be built. I am sure some bright lad will put it all together, and create a similar fermenting package all told for under $1500. One thing to note it wont be all stainless bling, but it also probably won't be 23L.

From where I sit WW is as close to actual Commercial brewing equipment avaliable on the market, for the home brewer when it comes to fermenting. I think we some times get all too caught up with producing wort (5-8 hours) than fermenting (120-240 hours). Temperature isn't the only thiing to be concerned with.

MY 1.35c
Mike

 

[wobbly]

I guess for the majority it will be an "oh hum incident" but today I ordered my WW

Also of interest to note that this is the 43rd unit sold by Winequip for delivery in Australia so there are a few out there that think the process is worth the money

Cheers

Wobbly