Who Uses Bronco Taps?

[FarsideOfCrazy]

Hi all,

Whilst searching for info about setting up my first keg I came across this thread from TB,

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...ic=30983&hl

Very clever idea there TB :beerbang: .

I've had my keg on the gas for a week now set at 80kpa. Did a test pour with the short black rubber line, it's about 60cm long, and it was way too fast, end result = flat beer .
Then I lowered the pouring pressure to 40 kpa, vented off the excess and tried again, nice slow pour, end result = flat beer again.

So what I would like to know is how do you go about carbing up the beer, pressure/time (when using one of these taps if you use the shorter black line for a party keg setup) and then what do you do for pouring pressure?

Should I just ditch the short black rubber line and use a more conventional beer line? (was trying to avoid this for a party keg setup though). Or the other option is get myself a Celli and use that till I get my kegerator chest freezer setup. Or thirdly am I doing something wrong, which is highly likely!

I've read the wiki about balancing a draft system and used crozdogs calculator and can't find anything relating to this small problem.

Any advice would be great.

Cheers.
Farside.

 

[clean brewer]

Hey mate,

I use a Bronco(ive got a celli but its still in a box as im quite happy with bronco, plus less fart arsing around), I was using the Ross method but then switched to 300kpa for 24hrs, works much better I think, bit more control and you can test the beer a bit earlier too just to see how its going..

I dont generally turn the gas on to pour if there is enough pressure in the keg, I just let the pressure in there do the work itself, but I do have the reg set at 70kpa and give it a squirt after ive finished having beers or when pressure drops a bit..

Havnt had any issues with the Black hose that its with, I just bought another bronco tap and just attached it to some beer/gas line that I had spare and no dramas with it also..

I keep thinking, maybe I should just get rid of the celli and spend the money on something else but its worth more to me hanging onto it, maybe for my birthday, ill ask for another and install them on my fridge..

Go the Broncos... :beerbang:

 

[InCider]

Broncos all the way. Easy, cheap, sexy and ...D'oh... they remind me of the Brisbane Broncos.... :icon_vomit:

 

[bradsbrew]

Broncos all the way. Easy, cheap, sexy and ...D'oh... they remind me of the Brisbane Broncos.... :icon_vomit:

Hey Bronco taps are reliable, and are even better around State Of Origin time. Nothin like the brisbane broncos. :icon_chickcheers:

 

[FarsideOfCrazy]

Thanks for the replies.

Maybe I just need to let it gas up for a bit then.

And I wish they were called 'Shark taps' .

Flame suit on.....

GO THE SHARKS!!!!!!

Don't want to start a NRL debate here.....

 

[bradsbrew]

I have a plastic bronco tap and it works fine. Anthony at CB already had it cut to length about 1 to 1.5m of the clear beer line and after carbing it up I pour at about 70 for ales.


Cheers Brad

 

[buttersd70]

I use broncos. I have a couple, with different lengths. My higher (realatively speaking) carbs get poured at 70, line length is about 1.5-1.7 (ish), and a shorter one for english styles that is about 1-1.1m, for 40-50 kpa, using 5mm line.

I carb by shaking/rolling for about 1/2 hr or so at serving pressure. It's then good enough to pour a couple, after 24hrs it's perfect.

Lengths and pressures are the same as crozdogs carb chart gives. Since I stopped force carbing with higher pressure, I've never had a dodgy pour.

 

[Fents]

I carb by shaking/rolling for about 1/2 hr or so at serving pressure. It's then good enough to pour a couple, after 24hrs it's perfect.

intresting butters. never heard that one before. i'll have to try that if i have a spare half hour.

keg cold first?

 

[buttersd70]

intresting butters. never heard that one before. i'll have to try that if i have a spare half hour.

keg cold first?

Yep, keg is cold first. Actually, it's colder than my normal serving temp which is 8C, cos I do it straight out of cold conditioning. Usually I start by aggressively shaking for a few minutes, then just sit there reading a book or whatever whilst rolling it back and forth on the floor with my feet....(edit: obviously, it would be advisable to have a non return valve in place.)
Slightly undercarbed (but definately drinkable) beer for the first 24hrs followed by perfectly carbed beer is, to me, a lot more preferable than overcarbing by accident and then pissfarting around for the next couple of days venting it out and fiddling with the regulators, line lengths, and everything else..... :icon_cheers:

 

[Thirsty Boy]

intresting butters. never heard that one before. i'll have to try that if i have a spare half hour.

keg cold first?

I carb the same way as butters - the reg gets set to serving pressure and the keg simply gets shaken till it stops absorbing gas. Not possible to over carb it then and its ready to pour in half an hour from dead flat. Chilled of course, serving temp.

Farside - to make the bronco work with the short length of hose, you are simply going to have to serve your beer at a different pressure than you store it. So its a matter of using the temperture/pressure charts to get you beer carbed up to the number of C02 volumes you want. That takes care of your carbonation.

To serve, you will need to vent the keg and adjust the pressure till it pours well through the bronco - that will be fine for a party, or a session or whatever - but at the lower pressure you beer will slowly be losing carbonation. If you dont want it to eventually go flat, then you need to re-pressurize it between sessions. Back up to it previous level.

Then next time you want a drink - vent, serve, re-pressurize.

PITA - ergo the notion of a balanced draft system. And for that, you have to get rid of the short line and install one that is long enough for its friction to balance the serving pressure and give you a good pour. My bronco/picnic tap in the picture you posted a link to - is hooked up to about 2.8 meters of JG line. Pressure at about 11psi. The Celli would squirt beer across the room at that pressure with only about 60cm of line... but it has the flow controller.

TB

 

[warrenlw63]

This one is an oldie but a goodie from the G&G website... Have been using basically the same method for 10 years and works perfectly. A small modification I like to use if I want the beer slightly quicker (as G&G state) is to swap the grey gas disconnect for a black beer out one. Connect the gas to the beer out post and let the gas enter from the bottom up through the keg. Just make sure you don't leave the disconnect on with the gas turned off lest you get a snotty, beer filled regulator.

Carbonating And Serving Beer From Kegs

Draught beer is the dream of many home brewers who aim to serve their beer as it is done in pubs. Systems have been developed using soda stream carbonators and bulbs, however these fall far short of the mark. The best and easiest system to use is one using 18 or 20 litre stainless steel kegs. This sheet outlines a basic procedure to follow for carbonating and serving beer from post-mix soft drink kegs.

Cleaning, Filling and Carbonating

1 Sterilise your keg by filling it with the same type of sterilising mix you use to sterilise your beer fermenter. We use and recommend BREWCHLOR. Into this place the tubing you will be using to fill the keg. Replace the lid and allow the keg to sit for 20 to 30 minutes. Do not leave Brewchlor or other bleach based sterilisers in contact with your keg for any longer than this time.

2 Drain the keg, and rinse it and the tubing thoroughly.

3 Purge the keg of all its air by sealing the lid and connecting the gas line from the gas cylinder, to the gas inlet on the keg. Turn the gas bottle on and set the pressure to 100 kPa (15Psi). Allow the gas to flow for 30 seconds and then vent the keg by opening the safety valve to release all the pressure. Do this three times, to ensure that all the air is removed from the keg before filling. This is done to lower the risk of the beer becoming oxidised which will affect its flavour.

4 Release all the pressure via the valve and open the lid of the keg. Don't be worried that the gas will escape as enough will remain due to it being heavier than air.

5 Fill the keg from your fermenter using food grade tubing, taking care not to splash the beer, as this may also cause oxidation. Fill to within 50 - 75mm of the top of the keg. Replace the lid on the keg.

6 Connect the gas line to the gas valve on the keg and blow out any remaining air that still may be in the keg. Do this by venting the air/gas through the safety valve as you did when you purged the keg in Step 4. Close the safety valve and pressurise the keg for 10 seconds.

7 Chill your keg in the fridge to 2 to 4 degrees Celsius. This will normally take overnight. The reason the keg is chilled is to allow the gas that is to be added to the beer to be more easily dissolved.


8 Connect the black liquid disconnect disconnect to the gas line from the bottle. Turn on the gas and make sure the gauge is still set to 100 kPa. Connect this disconnect to the liquid valve on the keg (the only valve that will take the liquid disconnect). Leaving this connected, you can then dissolve the gas a lot faster by rocking the keg backwards and forwards. This forces the gas to dissolve into the beer. Rock the keg up to 100 times.

9 Allow the keg to sit in the fridge for 24 hours and repeat this process. This will allow plenty of time for the first lot of gas to dissolve into the beer.

10 Repeat Steps 8 and 9 over the course of three to four days. Don't be concerned about over gassing the beer as the pressure set on the gauge will ensure this doesn't occur.


Dispensing The Beer

The easiest way to dispense the beer from the keg is to firstly turn on the gas and make sure the gauge is set to 100 Kpa. Then connect the gas line, with a white gas disconnect attached, to the gas valve on the keg. This is how the pubs dispense their draught beer. This pressure will ensure a smooth easy pour and no carbonation will be lost. It is extremely important to note that the beer line should be 4mm diameter and 2.4 meters long or 3.3 meters long with 5 mm line.

Apart from smooth pouring and uniform carbonation this method also means no more adjusting your regulator as you will be both carbonating and pouring at the same pressure.

So there you have it. Don't hesitate to get in touch if you have any questions.


Warren -

 

[happy benno]

Dispensing The Beer

The easiest way to dispense the beer from the keg is to firstly turn on the gas and make sure the gauge is set to 100 Kpa. Then connect the gas line, with a white gas disconnect attached, to the gas valve on the keg. This is how the pubs dispense their draught beer. This pressure will ensure a smooth easy pour and no carbonation will be lost. It is extremely important to note that the beer line should be 4mm diameter and 2.4 meters long or 3.3 meters long with 5 mm line.

Apart from smooth pouring and uniform carbonation this method also means no more adjusting your regulator as you will be both carbonating and pouring at the same pressure.

So there you have it. Don't hesitate to get in touch if you have any questions.


Warren -

I must be have mine set up incorrect, my beer pours way to fast at even 70kpa, i have mine set to about 20kpa with 1.8m line 5mm for it to pour nice and steady, but will my beer start to go flat?

cheers Benno

 

[Snow]

I must be have mine set up incorrect, my beer pours way to fast at even 70kpa, i have mine set to about 20kpa with 1.8m line 5mm for it to pour nice and steady, but will my beer start to go flat?

cheers Benno

Yes. I reckon storing at 70kpa is the minimum. I store (and pour) mine at 80-90KPA.

- Snow

 

[MarkBastard]

Yes. I reckon storing at 70kpa is the minimum. I store (and pour) mine at 80-90KPA.

- Snow

It depends on temperature.

I store and pour mind at about 50kpa. My fridgemate is set at 4 degrees C. My black hose (4mm ID) on my bronco is about a meter long, maybe a little less.

Sounds to me like the OP's beer is possibly overcarbed?

 

[Fourstar]

It depends on temperature.

I store and pour mind at about 50kpa. My fridgemate is set at 4 degrees C. My black hose (4mm ID) on my bronco is about a meter long, maybe a little less.

Sounds to me like the OP's beer is possibly overcarbed?

agreed, i can pour at 50kpa (fast) from my bronco with bronco line, others cant... it takes some skill! :icon_cheers:

If i have others around i usually let it drop back to 20kpa and allow it to pour at that rate then ramp it up after everyone leaves. Serving is @ around 3 deg.

 

[mika]

Yes. I reckon storing at 70kpa is the minimum. I store (and pour) mine at 80-90KPA.

- Snow

How do you get it out of the tap Snow ? Have you got a Celi with a flow control ?
I've got a Perlick and a Shirron and store/pour at 65-70kPa and am on the verge of a glass full of foam if I'm not careful with the pour. I've currently got ~5metres of beer line (though I think it is the 5mm ID stuff).

 

[FarsideOfCrazy]

It depends on temperature.

I store and pour mind at about 50kpa. My fridgemate is set at 4 degrees C. My black hose (4mm ID) on my bronco is about a meter long, maybe a little less.

Sounds to me like the OP's beer is possibly overcarbed?

Hi Mark,

I don't see how the beer can be overcarbed as I only had it set at 80kpa, to try to avoid that problem. I've had it set at 100kpa over night and will have one later and see how it goes. If it still pours flat it may well be overcarbed.

I was going vent the keg and pour at about 10 kpa and see how that goes. I'll let you know how I get on.

Thanks for all the replies everybody sounds like there is a few different methods to use so I'll do a bit of trial and error.

Thanks.
Farside

 

[MarkBastard]

Hi Mark,

I don't see how the beer can be overcarbed as I only had it set at 80kpa, to try to avoid that problem. I've had it set at 100kpa over night and will have one later and see how it goes. If it still pours flat it may well be overcarbed.

I was going vent the keg and pour at about 10 kpa and see how that goes. I'll let you know how I get on.

Thanks for all the replies everybody sounds like there is a few different methods to use so I'll do a bit of trial and error.

Thanks.
Farside

What temperature is your fridge set at? When I was starting out I blindly followed the 100kpa advice and I severely overcarbed my first brew. That's because I failed to notice how temperature affects all this.

100kpa at 4 degrees for an ale is MASSIVE, but at 6 degrees for a lager may be okay.

Check out the balancing a draught system articles etc

 

[FarsideOfCrazy]

Hi all again,

Mark you might be right with overcarbed idea. Poured one before and it was still flat. I'll try dropping the pressure to 50kpa, vent it, give it a shake and let it settle for a bit then try again.

Thanks again.

 

[buttersd70]

100kpa is 2 1/2 times the pressure I need.....

Pressure, temperature, line resistance. The 3 supports of the foundation.....

one mans 100kpa is another mans 150....depending on the temp. Pressure is not relevant. Temperature is not relevant. Presure versus temperature is relevant.

Big bold letters to make a point.......