Who Stirs Their Mash?

[Doc]

What exactly is "under-letting"?

[post="82223"][/post]​

It is where you introduce the hot liquor to the grist typically via the MLT outlet.

Beers,
Doc

 

[T.D.]

Thanks Doc,

So, that is obviously with the grain already in the mash tun...

I pour the grain into the mash water as opposed to the opposite way around. I constantly find I just don't have enough hands when I am doing it though! I'm trying to pour the grain in evenly with one hand (really needs two), and trying to stir it all in with the other hand!

 

[Doc]

Thanks Doc,

So, that is obviously with the grain already in the mash tun...

[post="82228"][/post]​

Yep. The grist is the grain.

Doc

 

[RobW]

Thanks Doc,

So, that is obviously with the grain already in the mash tun...

I pour the grain into the mash water as opposed to the opposite way around. I constantly find I just don't have enough hands when I am doing it though! I'm trying to pour the grain in evenly with one hand (really needs two), and trying to stir it all in with the other hand!

[post="82228"][/post]​

Try adding an icecream container full of grain at a time in a thin layer on top of the water, stirring gently till it sinks a bit, then keep repeating like that until it's all added. You don't get dough balls that way and it's esier to manage, although you may need to start with your water a degree hotter depending on how quick you are.

 

[warrenlw63]

Rob.

You'd still want to make sure it's all mixed in promptly this way. Problem is you've got small amounts of grain in contact with water that's up to 10 degrees hotter than sacc temps. Too much "finessing" could lead to rapid denaturing of (some) enzymes. Not good!

That said I'm mashing in up to 9kg of grain at a time for double batches and you're most likely only doing half with 23 litre batches so your method would probably be OK in that regard. I generally just dump the lot in as quickly as I can, then rely on the paddle and some body English to get it all evenly mixed.

One day I'll be brave and try underletting. IMO It seems a sounder solution. :beerbang:

Warren -

 

[RobW]

Rob.

You'd still want to make sure it's all mixed in promptly this way. Problem is you've got small amounts of grain in contact with water that's up to 10 degrees hotter than sacc temps. Too much "finessing" could lead to rapid denaturing of (some) enzymes. Not good!

That said I'm mashing in up to 9kg of grain at a time for double batches and you're most likely only doing half with 23 litre batches so your method would probably be OK in that regard. I generally just dump the lot in as quickly as I can, then rely on the paddle and some body English to get it all evenly mixed.

One day I'll be brave and try underletting. IMO It seems a sounder solution. :beerbang:

Warren -

[post="82233"][/post]​

I don't think finesse is involved to any great degree
I can usually get all the grist mixed in within a couple of minutes by pouring with one hand & mixing with the other - it's just easier to manage than dumping the whole lot in one go. I'd be pretty confident there's not too much trauma for the enzymes - the mash gets to sacc temp pretty quick.

 

[T.D.]

Thanks Doc,

So, that is obviously with the grain already in the mash tun...

[post="82228"][/post]​

Yep. The grist is the grain.

Doc

[post="82229"][/post]​

Oops, I didn't see that you already said that...

 

[Ross]

I add the water first & then just a steady pour from my grain sack - the grain all sinks without any dough balls & just the last bit needs to be gently stirred in - pouring too quick or adding water 2nd, seems to give me the dreaded dough balls...

 

[Jye]

Im in the same camp as Rob and Ross, I add my grain to the water over the space of about a minute and give it a light stir when I start to get some clumps floating on the water.

 

[Darren]

I find underletting much easier. No dust, no dough balls and potentially iyt is only the first few cm of grain having heat shock. You can also get more grain into your tun that way as it doesnt float. Used to dump the grain in and stir. Would never go back to it.
cheers
Darren

 

[T.D.]

To me, heat shock seems to be something that is largely unavoidable. Perhaps one method is slightly better than the other but at the end of the day, some grain is always going to hit ~75degC water.

 

[Darren]

Give under-letting a try. I think you will like it

 

[warrenlw63]

Darren.

Do experience any temp losses between the HLT and the mashtun when you're underletting?

I'd really like to try it after all this time, however my concern is with the strike water coming from the HLT at the correct temperature and possibly dropping when underletting the mash.

Do you just figure your strike water the same way as dump and stir mashing? Probably dumb questions but they concern me.

Warren -

 

[Doc]

Darren.

Do experience any temp losses between the HLT and the mashtun when you're underletting?

I'd really like to try it after all this time, however my concern is with the strike water coming from the HLT at the correct temperature and possibly dropping when underletting the mash.

Do you just figure your strike water the same way as dump and stir mashing? Probably dumb questions but they concern me.

Warren -

[post="82295"][/post]​

In my system my HLT temp needs to be about 76degC for a 66degC mash when underletting. When I was dumping the grain to the HL I used to have it about 3-4degC hotter.

Beers,
Doc

 

[Darren]

Warren, Never noticed any loss in heat. The high temp hose I use to transfer doesn't conduct heat at all well. Probably only takes about 3 minutes to fill my 50 litre keg. Works really well in my hands. The mash sorta floats as the grain is going in. Never get dough balls this way. When I dumped and stirred I used to get them quite often if I dumped too quickly. Also if it was a big batch sometimes the mash water used to spill over the side of the tun and I would have to wait until it sunk before I added more grain.

 

[Justin]

Do you guys measure your dough in water volume from the HLT when underletting? Or from the tun somehow?

I just do the conventional add the grain to the water so doing it this way I can fine tune the volume and the temp of my dough in water. I guess with underletting you have to get it right first go. From Promash my dough in temps and volumes usually work out to be spot on. This is because I can easily and accurately measure the volume of water in my tun.

How are you guys measuring the volume going into the tun?

Cheers, Justin

 

[T.D.]

I add the grain to the mash water after I transfer it to the mash tun from the hlt.

I usually heat about 1L more mash water than Beersmith calculates to allow for a bit of evaporation and this usually gets me pretty much spot on. I just pre-heat the mash tun and then literally pour the mash water out of a 25L pail (my hlt) into the mash tun. Then I add the grain.

 

[warrenlw63]

Do you guys measure your dough in water volume from the HLT when underletting? Or from the tun somehow?

[post="82316"][/post]​

Justin hazarding a guess a nicely-calibrated sight-glass on the HLT would most likely cover this area. Bit of a worry for my permanent marker and 9mm racking tube 10 minute wonder sight-glass (or should that be sight plastic).

It was calibrated whilst consuming a few quiet ones. :lol:

Warren -

 

[Gough]

I just use the sight glass on my HLT as well. Its calibration was done without the aid of intoxicating liquor though... :lol: Probably just as rough... :lol:

Shawn.