Whirlpool Process

[kieran]

However a 2mm perf SS false bottom and central pickup with the use of some hop leaves as a filter bed eliminates the whirlpool step for me all together and saves me that time and inconsistency. Now I flameout and immediately open the tap and start chilling straight away. Crystal clear wort out of the kettle immediately. And with a central pickup under a filter bed I lose only about 500mL to kettle trub etc.

This is my setup too - however I whirlpool for about 2 mins just to clear out any tiny bits of crud that may've collected underneath the false bottom near my pickup tube -- I've noticed a couple of times some stuff has come through and reduced my flow through my therminator. Its clear after that.

The attached picture isn't close to my current setup - it now has an inlet with angled SS tube (can be used as a return for whirlpooling, but is mainly the mash tun liquor inlet), and also has a thermowell in it too. The hose and thermowell doesn't help the whirpool, but I still get a reasonable (but not great) cone anyway. However it doesn't really matter because the bulk of the trub settles on top of the screen anyway.

The screen with through-port and pickup tube underneath nets me an extra 3-5L of clean wort per brew (since keg kettles have that dip in the bottom - I was losing a lot).

 

[The_Duck]

I ran an experiment the other day with a handfull of rice under the FB and a handfull on top, filled the kettle and whirlpooled with a big spoon, and got 2 nice little piles of rice dead centre of both the mesh screen and bottom of the pot, so it works to a certain extent. Emboldened by this, I gave the wort a damn good thrashing about 20 minutes post boil, stirred up a lot of trub and got a nice flat pancake covering the false bottom and a layer on the bottom of the kettle itself.

I'm thinking that in the smaller diameter pots (mine's 36 litres - 355mm dia) the spoon creates too much turbulence and puts post of the hop trub and break material back into suspension, while there's not enough mass of moving liquid to move it to the centre.

I guess the next step here would be to get a pump of some sort and see if that improves things. If nothing else, it should eliminate the turbulence kicking up crap from the bottom.

Are those little brown pumps powerful enough to get a whirlpool going?

I recently purchased a couple of the brown pumps with the intention to use one as a whirlpool pump as well as a wort transfer and one to run my immersion chiller.

I used a length of copper pipe hooked over the keggle as the outlet for the whirlpool in the wort. While the flow rate got the wort spinning slowly, I never got a funnel shaped cone on the top of the wort as a few posts have described as being optimal.

But seeing as how people are also saying that getting a whirlpool in a keggle is pretty hard, I am now not surprised.

I don't use a false bottom, screen or pickup tube and after seeing some of the pics from the other guys setups, I am thinking I may need to alter my process a bit. Most of my wort output to either cube or fermenter is well murky (like an upside down river aka Yarra River water). Usually still murky after fermentation and takes several weeks to clarify in the keg or in a bottle if I do some travellers.

I may need to get myself a kettlescreen of some sort to try and clean up my wort clarity. I also only whirlpooled for about 5 mins and drained before the wort had stopped spinning. Again, change in process might help.

Maybe I can use my mash paddle to get a good whirlpool going and then use the pump to try and keep it spinning as long as possible ?

I guess this calls for another brewday !!


Duck

 

[pk.sax]

DD

I am going to switch to the Aargon/Kieran style pickup next kettle, in the meantime, I don't get murky water out of the kettle. The trick that I found was to whirlpool more gently for the keggle I used to go bananas in my 19L pot and even the first brew in the keggle and it was the proverbial yarra water. Just the recommended dose of whirfloc and a gentle whirlpool to just get it all spinning.
Don't have a pickup tube so towards the end I end up sucking some wort due to the tilting and the 'cone' disintegrates in to a sort of slurry. That is getting fixed with tht next keggle.

Also, my pellets go in a hop sock, flowers don't. Might make a difference.

P

 

[Fat Bastard]

Try a gentler whirlpool with a broom handle.

Being serious here, I always get a cone in my keggle, just not as nice as those big pot ones. Been doing little experiments in a tea mug with tea leaves and a spoon's back end and that's what I've come up with.
Less distance between the walls of the pot and the centre means the energy in the flow at the side will be too high if you are thrashing it hard. I can't try it for myself yet as my gear is in a state of rebuild.

I actually use a thick-ish piece of dowel so to speak, similar to a broom handle, for my whirlpools, and although it doesnt get a crazy tight cone, it still has a nice lightly packed cone in the keggle which doesnt get sucked into the cube upon transfer.

Just seems easier to create a decent whirlpool using it as opposed to the mash paddle with the flat end.


Sponge

Funny, when I was lying in bed last night after posting, I thought of using the back end of the brew spoon. I may have to see if I can find a dowel, or a piece of 7/8" stainless (with an old motorcycle grip to avoid burning my tiny 'and) and do another brew this weekend to see how it goes.

Will let you know.

Cheers,

FB

 

[Fat Bastard]

Whirlpooled with the 1/2" dowel of doom today, and was rewarded with this magnificent sight greeting me as the wort drained.

And when I removed the false bottom screen and bag-rest, this also magnificent sight.

Neither is a perfect cone, and both slumped quite a bit as the wort drained, but then again there was over 250g of hop pellets in there! I can see this actually working quite well in a more normal beer.

A successful brew-day!

 

[pk.sax]

Finally tried out that idea with the falsie in the kettle. Not the perfect candidate as there was bugger all hops (20L batch turned into a 23-24L batch with 3 hop plugs for bitterness only).

1/2 tab irish moss, no whirlpool, left maybe a schooner worth that wouldn't rise above the elbow pickup. Very happy.

Also, I jugged back a ~ 3 jugs to put the tiny bits that got through back on top, need to put a washer in at the point where the comp fitting goes through the falsie to stop the suck that happens through there. The comp fitting at the bottom is a 1/2" thread to 1/2" tube fitting that I drilled out the stop on the inside of to make a copper tube go all the way to the bottom.

 

[timmi9191]

Resurrecting an old thread, but great to see the various whirl pooling/ non wp techniques.

Is anyone considering/doing filtering out of the kettle.

A process similar to boil, chill, pump through micron filter into primary?

 

[vortex]

I use a BrewersHardware trub filter on the kettle, well, plate chiller actually - though I still do a whirlpool too. 15min WP with pump, 15 min to settle. The trub filter is primarily there so I don't get stuff in the plate chiller. I used to get stuff in the plate chiller before I was whirlpooling properly. I wouldn't use a filter like this as a replacement for whirlpool.

Thus:

Image doesn't want to work for me. Direct link: http://i.imgur.com/Hlo5A9W.jpg

 

[timmi9191]

Sweet rig

 

[timmi9191]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfp_ifTjMqg

I'm impressed with this guys equipment and technique. Anyone doing similar?

 

[vortex]

IMO there would be an increased risk of infection chilling in the kettle like that if you didn't cover it with a lid - the upside though is that most of the cold break remains in the kettle (not much of an upside for the risk IMO). Personally I'm sticking to a plate chiller and plan to upgrade to the Sabco which can be dismantled, when funds allow.

Jamil Z has some info on his whirlpool chiller here: http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php

 

[Camo6]

I used a WP IC with my BIAB setup and plan to reuse it when I get around to setting it up on the HERMS rig. I'd recirc for 15mins then at flameout I'd cover the kettle with a metal lid with a small cutout for the pipes. I covered that hole with a starsan soaked cloth and a towel just to be on the safe side. Once the wort was cooled I'd switch of the LBP and let it settle then drain to fermentor without ever removing the kettle lid. Worked a treat and would chill boiling wort to pitching temps in about 30-40 mins IIRC.

 

[ohgoodthinking99]

... as i whirlpool via recirculating with the pump i found that the hopscreen would fill very quickly with pellets (i only use pellets), restricting the flow considerably, so i removed it and replaced with a pickup tube that goes all the way to the side of the pot, and is about 1cm off the base

this works much better for me

I'm interested to hear more about whirlpooling by recirculating with a pump. I plan to do this, post boil, whilst hot, in my kettle. And only pump out to a counterflow chiller after whirlpooling. Obviously I don't want to blow air into my hot wort. I can prime before my pump, but how do you go about priming the line feeding back to the whirlpool to minimise oxygenation?

 

[Eagleburger]

I use an over the side return pipe. It didnt whirlpool real well on account of the poor flow throught the chilling system etc. The other night I left my pot stand in the kettle after mash and behold, a respectable cone.

 

[seehuusen]

I've made a whirlpool arm exactly like Eagleburger's, and I'm hoping I can get a better whirlpool happening in my keggle next brew.
Without it, I just end up with a whole lot of trub in my fermenter, which ideally, like the rest of you, I'd like to avoid

 

[user 36151]

Im only a newby to all this and the whirl pool trub cone has me beat. Tried my first no chill a few months ago and seemed to eliminate all trub from the kettle perfect cone but last brew went back to immersion chiller whirl pool after chilling and could not clear the pick up from about 100mm from bottom of kettle picked up a plate chiller today so am going to whirlpool hot insulate kettle put lid on give it 15 then run out through the plate chiller with ice slurry in chiller will let u know how it goes

 

[user 36151]

I'm interested to hear more about whirlpooling by recirculating with a pump. I plan to do this, post boil, whilst hot, in my kettle. And only pump out to a counterflow chiller after whirlpooling. Obviously I don't want to blow air into my hot wort. I can prime before my pump, but how do you go about priming the line feeding back to the whirlpool to minimise oxygenation?

I tried it with a keg king magnetic drive pump just seamed to blend all the crap together and make it worse I pulled from drain valve and made an arm to return to side not sure what I did wrong but did not work made it worse.

 

[Camo6]

Im only a newby to all this and the whirl pool trub cone has me beat. Tried my first no chill a few months ago and seemed to eliminate all trub from the kettle perfect cone but last brew went back to immersion chiller whirl pool after chilling

ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1437140307.863538.jpg

ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1437140338.421720.jpgand could not clear the pick up from about 100mm from bottom of kettle picked up a plate chiller today so am going to whirlpool hot insulate kettle put lid on give it 15 then run out through the plate chiller with ice slurry in chiller will let u know how it goes

I've found I get a much better trub cone when no-chilling compared to using an IC. I reckon you're right that the pump is blending the break and undoing the work of any finings you're using. I used to use a little brown pump to recirc while chilling in a keggle but never got the murky wort like in your pic. Now I just use a long handled T piece of SS in a cordless drill to whirlpool. Let it sit 15mins and gives a great trub cone. Out of interest, is your return arm on a horizontal plane?

 

[user 36151]

I've found I get a much better trub cone when no-chilling compared to using an IC. I reckon you're right that the pump is blending the break and undoing the work of any finings you're using. I used to use a little brown pump to recirc while chilling in a keggle but never got the murky wort like in your pic. Now I just use a long handled T piece of SS in a cordless drill to whirlpool. Let it sit 15mins and gives a great trub cone. Out of interest, is your return arm on a horizontal plane?

yes it was horizontal and curved to the pot radius returned about half way down the wort used it while chilling and to form a whirlpool when chiller removed the merky pic doesent show it to well but there is clear wort [pilsner I think that one was] on top of the break it just took ages to settle once it got to that level and no clump.

 

[user 36151]

mastered the whirlpool. first brew with the plate chiller. whirlpool about 10 mins after flame out, wrapped up kettle in sleeping bag lid on left for 30 mins for whirlpool to stop and settle. ran out at 90degrees into plate chiller 9 deg c out of plate chiller using immersion chiller in a ice bath as a pre chiller. I found the trick is not to remove the lid no peeking and pull burner out from under kettle also first 10 mins after flame out cool down around bottom of kettle stand I used a fan but don't leave it on turn off after 10 mins. Perfect trub cone I was able to push pick up all the way to floor of kettle with no break or hop matter that's a first for me.
Whirlpool done with a plastic spoon for about 40 secs.