What Is The Future Of Beer

[Yikes]

If the aussie beer industry follows the wine industry wont we just find that we have wall to wall beers that we will really never know the subtle differences between because we could never taste them all. I was thinking today that a six pack of beers with different hops used in each would be fun. Find out the taste of each hop. You probably would have a hard time selling this one. Im just being lazy and dont want to do this for myself i guess.

 

[Dazza_devil]

I think the problem that we have with beer trends and supply and demand sculpturing the market is this,
There are a lot of people out there that drink beer but a small percentage of them know anything about it or have the interest nor the time to do so.
Most people have such busy lifestyles they are just happy to drink what is put in front of them and pleased to have a drink no matter what it is, even if the first few sips or glasses are a little hard to put down, just give me what he's drinking. The problem lies in that these people are the majority and always will be and also the ones that will control the market.
I doubt if the beer and wine market will have any trends in common, they are mostly two different cultures and drinking regimes. Twenty bucks for one bottle, and that's a cheap one, puts a social barrier on the wine market. I remember the box-monster days and they weren't pleasant. Beer has always been the working man's drink, negating the rum days. Just like marijuana is the poor man's cocaine.

 

[Glenn Hargreaves]

WOW , i go to bed then wake up to see if any one else has commented on this topic and there is 3 pages to read.

Some really good points made from a lot of different people, some i agree with some maybe not as much, but the main thing is that people are thinking about this and discussing it.
If i had all the answer i would be rich but i don't.
Few main points : Brew a IIPA, Good Kolsch, English Mild and Good Pilsner.

 

[Glenn Hargreaves]

WOW , i go to bed then wake up to see if any one else has commented on this topic and there is 3 pages to read.

Some really good points made from a lot of different people, some i agree with some maybe not as much, but the main thing is that people are thinking about this and discussing it.
If i had all the answer i would be rich but i don't.
Few main points : Brew a IIPA, Good Kolsch, English Mild and Good Pilsner.

 

[Glenn Hargreaves]

OOps, can brew beer but not use computers

Other points ; Make the beers you do good. No point having 10 beers if only a couple are any good and make them different enough
Try and make specialties more available, we have been trying as we released a Keller Bier on Australia Day at about 6 pubs in Melbourne, Maybe look at bottling specialties.
Check this website more and ask questions
Drink more beer - This was just my idea

Cheers
Glenn

 

[Dazza_devil]

It would be nice to come up with something that is original and Australian. You gotta start somewhere.

 

[Glenn Hargreaves]

The hard thing is what is australian and how to define it.

All Australian ingredients and Hops?

Australian Lager?

As it is there seems to be alot of styles that have similar profiles and guidelines.

 

[Dazza_devil]

I'de say that if it's made in Australia from Australian ingredients and not a clone or a copy of another style but a new style of it's own.
Redefine in a way. The old Aussie beers were only clones of English Ales and they have come from there but look what America has done with it.

 

[The Mad Hopper]

Other points ; Make the beers you do good. No point having 10 beers if only a couple are any good and make them different enough
Try and make specialties more available, we have been trying as we released a Keller Bier on Australia Day at about 6 pubs in Melbourne, Maybe

I tried this last weekend at The Local Taphouse in St Kilda. Personally I thought the bitterness stood out a bit too much. The beer had this great and quite subtle honey-like sweetness to it, but before I could enjoy that the bittering came through.

Don't get me wrong, I still liked the beer. I just think this is one of those times where less bitterness is good in a beer.

Good work on getting the beers out there though!

 

[Dazza_devil]

I think to truely give a beer a good appraisel you have to try it with different foods, differing amounts, differing temperatures, differing thirst levels etc. There are so many variables that can make a beer taste good.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Well we all know that you and I are too smart to fall for advertising, yet the big breweries spend tens of millions a year on advertising their pleasantly tasteless fizzy yellow swill. Someone must be listening, or they wouldn't do it.

Yes, like white bread, bland beer is the biggest seller, but like you I have come across some really nice balanced craft brews, unlike the unbalanced sweet **** coming from CUB.

I think the future of beer will see the craft/micro market stay fairly small. Extreme beers will be there, but in small volume for extreme palates. Would be nice to see local breweries take over the mega's but in reality, the barriers to entry to the market are too massive. Only a Coca Cola scale organisation can attempt it, and look at the label they bought!!

The big breweries don't spend millions of dollars advertising to get you to drink fizzy yellow beer, they spend all that cash to get you to drink their fizzy yellow beer. And when they do spend money trying to plug a more flavoursome beer... it seldom works. VB original might not have been an earth shaking beer, but it wasn't all bad - plenty of marketing dollars... flop. Remember Tooheys blue and Fosters Special Bitter - both particularly good efforts at making a decent tasting light beer, both pushed by stacks of marketing - both gone. Replaced by (at least the Fosters brand) Fosters Light Ice and nowadays Cascade Light both of which have nothing like the flavour.

Thats the point I was trying to make - not a defense of the mega brewers, they don't need defending, they can just hide behind the piles of money they make - But simply to point out that they made those piles of money by noticing that in Australia people gravitate towards lightly flavoured beers; and giving it to them in spades. Like it or lump it, breweries are not just about making beer, they are about selling beer too and if a small brewer wants to know what direction to go in - well I think not having a mildly flavoured, light coloured, easy drinking beer in the range is simply commercial suicide in the Australian market.

I don't for a second think they should make a version of New/VB/XXXX - but that doesn't mean they couldn't have a great Dortmunder or Cream Ale or American Wheat or Pilsner or Helles or whatever in the range. Tick all the boxes that the mega swill ticks for the average drinker.... and still make it great beer. I'd certainly drink it.

TB

PS - Disclosure. I think most people are aware, but just to make sure. I am an award level employee of CUB in Melbourne and spend my days helping to make a hell of a lot of the bland yellow fizzy beer that most people on this site think is such rubbish.

 

[WSC]

PS - Disclosure. I think most people are aware, but just to make sure. I am an award level employee of CUB in Melbourne and spend my days helping to make a hell of a lot of the bland yellow fizzy beer that most people on this site think is such rubbish.

I was waiting for the disclaimer

Here are my thoughts, not sure about trends but here is where I think there are opportunities:

Barrel/Oak Aged Beers - for the collector in us
Variety - Many and varied releases, once a month once every 2 months. There are not enough seasonals with cult following in Australia. Give me something to look forward to each month and I will spend $10 - $20 a bottle for it.
Make the beer experience more like wine - Styles suited to food, glassware, social aspects - wine drinkers and dinner party thowers look for different ways to impress and have cash to spend.
Balance and Complexity - make a version of an aussie beer if you want but with a twist in there, so when you taste it it is famililar but different and makes you want to have another sip. Don't rely on one ingredient too much. I find alot of beers, what I brew included, that are a bit too reliant on either hops or malt. I think we need to make beers more interesting, break a few rules but keep it balanced.

My thoughts.
Cheers and good luck.

 

[chappo1970]

TB
PS - Disclosure. I think most people are aware, but just to make sure. I am an award level employee of CUB in Melbourne and spend my days helping to make a hell of a lot of the bland yellow fizzy beer that most people on this site think is such rubbish.

Ahhh! So your the one to blame then? :lol: Wher's my pitch fork and flaming torch honey, there be a lynching in the village?

TB your input is always welcome in my books mate. I agree with completely your opinion. And on a side note I am truely over the Megaswill bashing and raging debates. What I have seen and observed from my mates drinking habits is that is it very simular to the age old "Ford man" vs "Holden man". My mates from time to time swollow the marketing hype of Ice beers, Blonde beers and now Low Carb beers BUT they always revert back to their staple beer. That being one of the major brand offerings like XXXX, Tooheys New, Carlton Draught etc etc.

IMO there is, however, room for both Mega and Craft within the market place. Albeit that the roost is ruled by the massive powerhouse breweries and their loyal beer drinkers but lets take Little Creatures success and Fat Yak release for example it's obvious to me that there is a decent sized segment of the market out there that is viable and profitable. Also take in account the purchase of Gage Road by a Mega Brewery and it says to me even the big guys are seeing a change, a shift if you will away from the traditional offerings and want a part of the action. Now i am not privvy to the vital statistics but it would be interesting to see the percentages on what the market break up is Mega:Craft, would it not? And how has that changes over the last say 10 years?

But Glenn was asking what "Us" home brewers would like to see from a Craft Brewer not what the mega super dooper Brewers should be brewing because there is no way knowing that they would commit commercial suicide to their stockholders and turn their back on their respective market. Why would they listen to 0.001% of the market for crying out loud? End of debate!

Barrel/Oak Aged Beers - for the collector in us
Variety - Many and varied releases, once a month once every 2 months. There are not enough seasonals with cult following in Australia. Give me something to look forward to each month and I will spend $10 - $20 a bottle for it.

WSC I agree with these 2 points and if I was in a marketing sample group this would be my response to them.

 

[jbowers]

WOW , i go to bed then wake up to see if any one else has commented on this topic and there is 3 pages to read.

Some really good points made from a lot of different people, some i agree with some maybe not as much, but the main thing is that people are thinking about this and discussing it.
If i had all the answer i would be rich but i don't.
Few main points : Brew a IIPA, Good Kolsch, English Mild and Good Pilsner.

I tried your Kellerbier yesterday Glenn - having never had a beer in that style before, it seemed to match the beeradvocate style description very well. A nice sharp, hoppy nose. Plenty of initial smoothness followed by a drying hoppiness. Really great, was one of only 2 beers I had on the tasting paddle that I got another of afterwards.

Back to this whole discussion, I think the crux of it is just that beer enthusiasts here just want to see really good examples of styles here that are rarely/never produced in this country. I would prefer to drink a local beer than fork out money, a great deal of which is paying for shipping costs, to buy beers from Great Divide, Southern Tier, Lagunitas etc.

 

[Fourstar]

What is classed as mega swill will always be there, interested to see where to go for us small craft brewers. I know for sure we will never brew a low carb beer.

You can always brew an American Blonde and play on the 'style/descriptor' thats used by low-carbers. Stick with what the masses know and best of all brewed by a micro. An American Blonde is quite a flavoursome light ale, think a dumbed down APA on the hop side and simple malt bill.
90% Pale/pils
5% Wheat
5% Vienna/Munich (this might even be OTT)

Can be adapted as an English summer ale with UK hops or do something different and use kolsch yeast or cal lager yeast.

Its a fact that smaller breweries could take a little notice of - People LIKE subtly flavoured beers. Try making them one and see. The guys at Mt Goat did and their Steam Beer has gone through the roof. Is it a boring flavourless beer?? No-way!! Its a really nice example of a subtle, well crafted, easy to drink people pleasing beer. They still make big beers, interesting beers and thats great - but they have at least gotten over the arrogant attitude that a lot (certainly not all) of craft brewers seem to display, that the beer the brewer likes, is the beer that their customers "should" like; and made the very ordinary and sensible business decision to actually give them what they want. And as a result they will diversify their customer base considerably, and almost certainly be responsible for introducing more people to the joys of big flavoursome beers than all the stubborn "I'm not making one of those sorts of beers" brewers put together.

I couldnt agree more. If i was starting a micro, this would be the FIRST beer i release, then the 'flavoursome styles' come second. You want to get people picking up your product, enjoying it and then spreading the great news via word of mouth. Unfortuantly forcing hoppy APA's down the throat of customers who are not tolerant/accepting of high IBU beers is not a quick route for sucess!

Give the masses what they want and the next time they think about picking up that 6'er of micro 'swill', they may just look at the IPA sitting next to it and think "well this light beer was great, i wonder how good this is?". There is always going to be enough of the beer geeks like ourselves around to pick up the minor styles and keep them moving.

The one thing i find that is really silly with the craft brewing industry is the 'apple corporation' tactics that are usually employed. I'll give you a product we want you to use and tell you how to use it. If there is something lacking that the customer wants, bahhh you dont want that! Unfortuantly it not what majority of customers in the market actually want and business can flounder because of it.

The hard thing is what is australian and how to define it.
All Australian ingredients and Hops?
Australian Lager?
As it is there seems to be alot of styles that have similar profiles and guidelines.

I had a bit of a discussion in the carpool home from BJCP training lastnight about how 'narrow' the Aussie Pale Ale category is. Basically, if it aint made with coopers yeast, it's pretty much a failure. How long until we see this category evolve or a modern day spin-off take the reigns in the marketplace to coin a modern day style?

Bridge Road Brewers have their Aussie Ale and MG have their Steam. We need more micros brewing these styles to start knocking the Lion Nathan and CUB taps off at our locals. I love my Aussie Blonde (which i call a Aussie Pale Ale). Its unobtrusive, an awesome quaffer, has hop character and appeals to the masses as well as the beer geek like myself.

You cant get much simpler and more enjoyable than a beer like this on a warm summers day or even a cold afternoon in the pub watching the footy.



Aussie Pale 'Clean' Ale
Australian Pale Ale

Type: All Grain
Date: 27/09/2009
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Brewer: Braden
Boil Size: 30.90 L
Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 68.0

Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.00 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.7 SRM) Grain 80.0 %
0.50 kg Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 10.0 %
0.50 kg Munich, Light (Joe White) (8.9 SRM) Grain 10.0 %
20.00 gm Super pride [15.10%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 38.4 IBU
30.00 gm Super pride [15.10%] (0 min) Hops -
2.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
6.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.011 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.5 %
Bitterness: 38.4 IBU
Est Color: 4.2 SRM

Mash Profile
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 14.00 L of water at 69.7 C 64.0 C 60 min
Mash Out Add 10.00 L of water at 97.7 C 77.0 C 10 min

Notes
CaCl into mash.
CaSO4 into boil.

 

[dgilks]

Back to this whole discussion, I think the crux of it is just that beer enthusiasts here just want to see really good examples of styles here that are rarely/never produced in this country. I would prefer to drink a local beer than fork out money, a great deal of which is paying for shipping costs, to buy beers from Great Divide, Southern Tier, Lagunitas etc.

You've hit the nail on the head right there. I would rather see great local beers. If a local brewery made a decent beer in the vein of Great Divide Hercules, Stone Ruination or RR Pliny the Elder, I would be all over it. So what if it costs $5 or 6 a bottle, it is still going to be better value and fresher than the import. I know some of our brewers are pushing the boundaries and doing some experimental/out of the Australian mainstream styles (Brendan at Feral, Richard at the Wig and Pen, Ben at Bridge Road) but hopefully we will see some more action on this front.

 

[Bribie G]

We are very shortly going to have another major player in the Aussie mass beer market with Bluetongue opening on the NSW Central Coast. If they make their major draught offering the current Bluetongue lager then they could be on to a winner. I reckon it's not a bad drop compared to XXXX or Carlton, has a light pleasant body and some hop presence. However they'll probably bland it to death or worse, make a Miller variant their main tap brew.

 

[PostModern]

Sounds awesome man. What brewery is that?

And the excise thing... so frustrating.

With the new laws though, they could bump it back up to 6.9% and still stay in the same tax bracket, apparently

The brewery is the 5 Islands in Wollongong. AG and Scotty are pumping out some great beers from there these days! A good accessible pale but interesting Dapto Draught, an American Amber, a superb Hefe (summer special), wit, porter, APA and IPA. That is a fair variety for a brewery in little old Wollongong. Interestingly, no Pilsner at the moment.

The big breweries don't spend millions of dollars advertising to get you to drink fizzy yellow beer, they spend all that cash to get you to drink their fizzy yellow beer. And when they do spend money trying to plug a more flavoursome beer... it seldom works. VB original might not have been an earth shaking beer, but it wasn't all bad - plenty of marketing dollars... flop. Remember Tooheys blue and Fosters Special Bitter - both particularly good efforts at making a decent tasting light beer, both pushed by stacks of marketing - both gone. Replaced by (at least the Fosters brand) Fosters Light Ice and nowadays Cascade Light both of which have nothing like the flavour.

Absolutely. The masses will always want sweet unbalanced unflavoured crap to deliver their dose of ethanol. I understand your point a little better now. Seems that, as I said before, blandness is what the people want, but I think I have always tried to put the blame on the breweries for supplying it and marketing it - supply creating its own demand, or rather the lack of alternatives on the market keeping people ignorant of different styles.

Mega breweries can keep that market, as far as I'm concerned. Unless you want to set up a regional sized brewery making enough swill for the mass market, the effort is not worthwhile, imho. No matter how good your microbrewed Dortmunder or Koelsch, it ain't VoiBoi and will likely cost two to four times as much, so you won't be selling cases of it from the supermarket or Dan's. Price and economies of scale are the reasons craft beer will always be a tiny percentage of the market.

 

[pmolou]

When I got o pre-drinks etc. I'll admit I'll usually buy what ever is cheap but when and when at the pub I'll try different micro-brews standard pale ales etc...
But when I go to purvis or slow beer to buy a craft beer I will always look for one that will be more of an experience and possibly inspire me to brew something of my own whether its a huge Imperial Stout, a Single-Hop beer, or just an English Mild I feel there has to be that something special about it which separates it; for instance people buy Timothy Taylor For its amazing Styrian Hop Aroma, Or Emersons to taste NZ hops, Cantillon to see what a sour beer tastes like (probably not the best examples but can't think of any atm)...

Overall I think there just has to be some type of signature to whatever style or beer you brew that makes people intrigued to try it at least once... I think breweries experimenting with different ingredients and yeasts etc is more exciting than "styles", and at least intrigues me to taste that beer (and spend big dollars on a single bottle). That's just me though

As for the future I'm thinking subtle well balanced Belgian Pale Ales, Lambics and Hybridized Beers with unorthodox techniques and ingredients...

experimentation no matter what field its in, Architecture, Food, Electronics is always exciting and "new"

my 2 cents

 

[HoppingMad]

The future of beer?

Macro Breweries:

- Creating beers that appeal to the next generation of beer drinkers. (Yours and your friends kids are their next profits)
- More attempts to crack the code that has eluded them for decades - getting more female drinkers to appreciate beer. It's slowly happening.
- The result of the above means more subtle beers, fruity inoffensive flavourings and unfortunately for beer officionados like us - lots more blandness.
- More seasonal releases as big breweries recognise that mainstream drinkers always appreciate something new. (ie. like Cascade already do)

Micro Breweries:

- More experimentation, and a move away from American Big Flavour Beers and Hops
- More widespread dabbling with New Zealand hop varieties and other flavours as new hop strains are developed
- Introduction of more unusual ingredients, herbs, grains, and fruits as micros struggle to differentiate themselves from the pack
- More breweries marketing and positioning themselves like winemakers already do - bringing more of the mainstream into the appreciation of craft beer.

The consequence of both?:

- Big brewers may see some but not all of their profits begin to be eroded by smaller brewers in some locations.
- This will mean that big brewers will start creating their own 'quasi-micros' to compete directly. This is already happening in the US. Watch 'Beer Wars' and you'll see.
- You will see more micros being sold into large breweries when they reach bigger distribution, and a few more spinoffs of the ilk of James Squire and Matilda Bay.

Hopper.