Water Report In Mg/l, Not Ppm

[iralosavic]

I'm hoping to use this data in the EZwater calculator, but the calculator calls for ppm units. I have attempted googling how to make the conversion, but the answers go over my head. In most cases the conversion was either impossible with the given information or the result was exactly the same in both measurements - ie 0.9 mg/L = 0.9ppm.


Can anyone with experience please help me out with getting this data to ppm. Cheers!

 

[ekul]

they are the same

 

[RdeVjun]

Yep, as per ekul, for all intents and purposes at this scale they're one and the same.

 

[iralosavic]

Thanks guys. The answer was so simple that I didn't accept it on my own credit. Cheers

 

[iralosavic]

Oh and should I be using the Alkalinity (CaCO3ppm) selection where the report reads Bicarbonate Alkalinity = 21 cacO3/L?
The alternative is HCO3, which I can see no reference to.

 

[Dazza88]

which area is that for?

I think EZY can be switched to CaCO3 up the top, but i don't know if you switch between the two depending on what you have at hand.

 

[eamonnfoley]

that water is awesome for brewing

 

[iralosavic]

Report is for LaTrobe in regional Victoria.

I've read palmers water chemistry section of how to brew and the part I'm struggling to digest is Bicarbonate, which is what needs to vary the most dramatically depending on the colour/style of the beer. My water report doesn't list bicarbonate. In any case, I can tell my water is suited for pilsners, lagers and pale ales - allbeit lacking in calcium. I can see that a little chalk and epsom salts will even the profile out, but I'm not sure what I would need to do in order to raise the 'bicarbonate' level for darker beers. Can anyone clarify this?

 

[RdeVjun]

Yes, Bicarbonate is HCO3 , its just reported as mg/L CaCO3 equivalent. Use the value of 21 and select the Alkalinity (CaCO3 ppm) option.

Reasonable water by the looks, where are you? This data might be useful to other brewers if its reticulated (i.e. town water). Do you know when it was sampled?

Edit: Beaten. Just add a little Bicarb Soda or CaCO3 for darker beers, but jeez, brew some lagers with it first!

 

[Dazza88]

I am an amateur at this but,

When i get too confused by water chemistry i run my water profile though the nomograph link at the bottom of this page: http://www.babbrewers.com/water


Gives a guide to colour suited for profile of water. Calcium additions lower the target SRM for my water profile. NaHCO3 (baking soda) or CaCo3 additions increases target SRM.

So do you need to add baking soda or calcium carbonate for darker beers?

 

[Dazza88]

Agreed, brew a lager or two. I am going to have to buy RO water when the cooler weather hits here.

 

[iralosavic]

It's town water and the senior scientist had a sample tested within a week of my asking. The report says 17/01/2012. He is also going to email me their actual scheduled analysis reports too, which are usually 6 monthly. The data is unlikely to change significantly though, I'm advised.

I will be focusing on lagers for sure, but still interested in the odd amber, porter and stout. Cheers

 

[RdeVjun]

Daz, its getting well out of my league however I've had the view that if there's adequate Calcium in the mash then use bicarb (NaHCO3), if not then use chalk (CaCO3)!
Gets rather complicated when splitting it into mash and boil additions, however I'd just caution against adding bicarb (or any salt for that matter) to the kettle when it is actually boiling- even 1/4 tsp of bicarb would turn a boiling kettle into one fearsome geyser! That's the acid - base thing, the wort is quite acidic and bicarb quite alkaline, but caution all round hey chaps?

 

[manticle]

Read Tony Wheeler's article.

Personally I avoid adding carbonates, even in really dark beers. I have tried cold steeping the dark grains overnight and adding them to the mash 10 mins from mashout - this seems to give a nice smooth result and avoids the need for any akalising of the mash.

If you do feel the need/desire to add carbonates, I would just use chalk and leave the bicarb out.

However mileages vary and I've never seen 1 thread where people seem to reach a consensus on water chemistry so best bet is to brew some beers, tweak your beers gently with salts and see if you like the results. If you don't, adjust next time.

 

[drsmurto]

that water is awesome for brewing

Agreed, not much more in your water than what falls from the sky.

Will be easy to brew any beer from that base with some salt additions.

EDIT - a small CaCO₃ addition in a bitter is very nice in my experience. I was anti CaCO₃ for a long time too but have made a few bitters with CaCO₃ additions (small) recently and have liked the result.

 

[iralosavic]

Agreed, not much more in your water than what falls from the sky.

Will be easy to brew any beer from that base with some salt additions.

EDIT - a small CaCO₃ addition in a bitter is very nice in my experience. I was anti CaCO₃ for a long time too but have made a few bitters with CaCO₃ additions (small) recently and have liked the result.

Palmer recommends a range of 50-150 for Ca and my water is practically devoid of it, so would my lagers and such benefit from a small addition of Gypsum (Caso4)? According to the handy java version hosted on hte BABB site, I can see that 3.5g would bring the Ca level up to 55ppm, however, this would also result in a so4 level of 154 which is getting into hop accentuation territory as I understand it.

I can see what ranges Palmer suggests sticking within and understand that some minerals accentuate hop bitterness and others malt profiles, but putting it all together is proving confusing. I guess if I had a better idea of ideal levels for everything in the graph for each beer style, I could jiggle the sliders around until I got it right.

 

[iralosavic]

Above is my water entered into the BABB application, with my typical mash volume. I'm hoping someone might have a fiddle and give me an indication of the best methods for improving the water for ligher and darker beers. Cheers.

 

[Fourstar]

Above is my water entered into the BABB application, with my typical mash volume. I'm hoping someone might have a fiddle and give me an indication of the best methods for improving the water for ligher and darker beers. Cheers.

Keeping it simple to make almost ANY beer regardless of colour.

For Malty beers
3g CaSO4 in mash
6g CaCl2 in kettle

For Hoppy beers
3g CaCl2 in mash
6g CaSO4 in kettle

The buffering capacity of the pale malt will keep the pH down in an acceptable range in majority of instances. From my experiences, its very hard to end up with a high or low mash pH outside of "normal" ranges. Also with the smidge of alkalinity you already have it should be acceptable for almost all beer styles. Don't be fearful of attempting to brew beers with 100% Pilsner Malt. As long as you add some calcium you will have a good enough security blanket. IMO, calcium is essential to make good beer consistently and its so simple to do.

These additions will cover sufficient Calcium required for enzyme activity 50ppm~ and will hit an upper range of around 80-100ppm Ca on your final post boil volume.

The post-boil malty/hoppy So4 to Cl ratios

Hoppy= SO4:Cl = 2:1
Malty Cl:SO4 = 2:1

perfect for 80%~ of beer styles. As for a bohemian Pilsner, simply add 3g CaCl2 and omit the kettle addition. Happy days. :icon_cheers:

 

[iralosavic]

Cheers fourstar. Greatly appreciated. I'll enter your suggestions and see if I can get my head around the cause and effect. Just out of curiosity, the water report says 7.1ph, but all the calculators show 5.8. Why is this?

 

[Fourstar]

Cheers fourstar. Greatly appreciated. I'll enter your suggestions and see if I can get my head around the cause and effect. Just out of curiosity, the water report says 7.1ph, but all the calculators show 5.8. Why is this?

7 is the pH of the water, 5.8 is the pH after adding your malt (it drops the pH).

Honestly, ignore the calculators and what they tell you about pH. The only real way to know is to measure it and 95% of times you will be in the expected ranges. As i said, its very hard for your pH to be way out unless you're doing something stupid or excessively (e.g. an all roast barley steep or adding a fistful of baking soda to your mash). Standard brewing practices you shouldn't encounter this. 5.3-5.6 is optimum at mash temperature (mid 60's) and most times you will be in that range. If you are concerned (i wouldn't be) get yourself a pH meter or test strips for that range and test the pH 15 mins into the mash.