Victorian 2017 Xmas Case Swap - Recipe

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Just googled cyber-spank... no turning back now.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

OK, here's my suggestion, this is scaled for 425L:

125 kilos Simpsons Golden Promise (could also be Barrett Burston Pale) 85%
7 kilos Simpsons Amber 5%
7 kilos Wey Caramunich III 5%
7 kilos Gladfield Supernova 5%
(Percentages are rounded, but actually a couple tenths of a percent different, 85.6% and 4.8% respectively.)

Golden Promise brings a sweet background for the hops to play against. Barrett would dry it out more.
Supernova brings caramel flavours without sweetness.
Caramunich III brings darker caramel flavours with a malty punch.
Amber brings some biscuit and nuttiness, as well as emphasizing fruity flavours, again for the hops.

I'm a big fan of ambers with some fruit and caramel, or, like the Modus Operandi Red Tenant, FLAVOUR! Amber beers that are just beer that is amber give me the *****. I figure if you're going to make it amber, use the amber flavour palette. BTW, I haven't brewed this, but am planning to give it a bash soon. I have been brewing Jamil's West Coast Amber as it's in the ballpark of what I like, but it's a damn fiddly recipe.

I'd prefer to use Carabohemian instead of the Caramunich, but it isn't available in the buy this time.

Any opinions?

EDIT: Oops, 1.073 so you can dilute at fermenting or hit it hard with the Hop Stick. Should ferment well on many different yeasts.

The Amber could easily be dropped for Biscuit. You could also drop the Amber entirely and change the base malt to Maris Otter. I suggested GP as it's my fave IPA malt, or BB as it drys out well.

Edit 63: Derpa derpa derp…30 IBU's up front, rest from late hopping.

My thought straight off reading this is. I like the idea. Sounds awesome. New World Ale. Dilution able!
Base as is will be an awesome beer or cube hop it up.
One beer being able to multiple options. That's what the swap beers have always been about init?

 

[Mardoo]

Not impossible Mr. OC, but somewhat implausible 5L of water added to an 11L cube of this one will give you 1.051. But yeah, a nice pale ale could be good.

Just for ***** and giggles I whacked up a Beersmith file of this proposition. I'll post it here with a .pdf of the info for anyone with too much time on their hands but not enough Beersmith. It assumes Idzy (or all of us together) actually has 700L of mashtun.

EDIT: I tried to get a bit realistic about ramp times, etc. If anyone has any input that would help me refine the equipment profile, I can post that for others mucking about with recipes.

 

[Mardoo]

Just googled cyber-spank... no turning back now.

You should really google Japanese Hairy Yam. Good times.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Ha! that opens up in my Beersmith. That's a first, for me...
I guess it needs some guide chart, or something like.
Dilute at this rate you will get ~estimated (OG, IBU, Color) then up to the cubist to chose the cube hop addition and calculations of IBU?

 

[mofox1]

Consider yourself cyber-spanked for being a hopeless juice-junky.

You could just owe me one ;-)

 

[Mardoo]

Interesting question. I would cube hop for the OG, and the dilution "should" diminish IBU in proportion, but that's 100% Pure Guessanium.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Interesting question. I would cube hop for the OG, and the dilution "should" diminish IBU in proportion, but that's 100% Pure Guessanium.

You could hack it out in beersmith to get close enough. Cubists enthusiastic enough could plan their little satchel of cube hops and I guess there needs to be some boiling water on tap at the time for the option of dilution cubed. That might be as simple as as, I'm not sure.
I have a 50l keggle and a stable solid burner. Pain in the arse to transport though.

 

[laxation]

You should really google Japanese Hairy Yam. Good times.

 

[Mardoo]

You could hack it out in beersmith to get close enough. Cubists enthusiastic enough could plan their little satchel of cube hops and I guess there needs to be some boiling water on tap at the time for the option of dilution cubed. That might be as simple as as, I'm not sure. .

That's an interesting idea.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

You should really google Japanese Hairy Yam. Good times.

?

 

[Mardoo]

Exactly what I was looking for. But I didn't have safe search on...

 

[Mardoo]

Here's a lower gravity one as an example. I've drunk plenty of this, but it shows the typical American many-malt dick waving. Not my recipe, just downloaded it as an example.

 

[Nullnvoid]

I have some questions. If we are going to try the partigyle, isn't it worth having the Rustylicious Amber IPA (working title) up higher like Mardoo's original recipe?

If it doesn't matter it being lower, can we just adjust the recipe so it's a lower gravity?

I think the simple amount of malt in the first recipe will be a nice change.

 

[technobabble66]

What's the general theory that we're going with here?
Do an Amber IPA that peeps can dilute down to an APA/Amber if they want, or do an Amber Ale that peeps can boost up (with, say, dex or candy syrup) to be an Amber IPA if they want?

Just quickly throwing an example into the ol spreadsheet, if we do an Amber Ale at ~5.3% (OG=1.050, 30IBUs (35% from FWH, 65% from cube)), this can easily be boosted up to an Amber IPA with 0.5kg dex/syrup & ~double the hops in the cube.

Though i'd generally prefer to brew stronger then dilute down if desired, it seems better/easier to brew the 5%'er so we can get lots more cubes out of the batch (as per MOC's suggestion). It's a piece of cake to simply increase the cube hops & chuck in some dex to get the IPA if that's what's wanted by the individual.


FWIW, that recipe from Mardoo with 85/5/5/5 seemed fine.
I'd probably drop the caramunich 3 down to 2, or swap it for Med Crystal - i prefer to get that "mid level" caramel from med crystal rather than the deeper/darker caramel/toffee from dark crystal (but i don't have much experience with darker crystal, tbh).
Also, i'd be inclined to go a bit of choc malt to hit some more toasty elements, though it looks like the Supernova should do that (?). Finally, if we want a (very) malty Amber, i'd be tempted to go some Melanoiden malt (namely 5%). However, it's probably best to avoid going down that route, as the heavier maltiness will probably get in the way of the hops, for both the AAA & the Amber IPA.
Similarly, is it worth looking at 10-20% Munich (dark munich, ftw!!) to get a little mellow maltiness. Again, not sold on this option, but seems like an obvious option for an amber ale.
All just my opinion, and quite happy to go with it as it is and see what happens . Just throwing some suggestions out there for the discussion.

EDIT: @Nullnvoid, depends if you can be bothered trying to get a second runnings partigyle. If we go high, then get some second runnings, we're probably only getting another 5-10 cubes off it (likely 5). If we go lower for a straight Amber Ale, we may well end up with an extra 5 cubes anyway from having a more diluted wort to begin with.
In a sense, we're kinda restrained by the mash size. So either way, there's only so much we can extract. Do we look at 22x 6.5% beers plus 5-6x 4% beers, or 30x 5% beers? Seems easier to just do the 5%'er and make for an easier brew day.

 

[Mardoo]

FWIW, volume-wise, we'e limited to around 600L by boiler size, unless we run both Husky and Idzy's kettles. The 2 recipes I posted are both configured for Husky's boiler alone, and Idzy's 700L of mash space. If we want more than 30 cubes, we can do a lower gravity beer and run both boilers.

 

[technobabble66]

Is husky's only delivering 600L?
I thought it was a 900L kettle, so good for ~700L final vol output (?).

Edit: yo @husky, what's the max output of your kettle. Ie: after the maximum "comfortable" volume has been boiled for 60-90mins?

 

[husky]

Total theoretical volume is just over 900L. The boil was very late in the night so cant recall what our boil off was but when we got to the boil there was no massive eruptions so I would have thought 800L pre boil volume could be a target. Then allow maybe 8% boil off and 40L kettle losses and ignore cooling shrinkage should be 660L ish into cubes. If we wanted to push it I'd say we could aim for 700L and a bit less boil off and recover more at the end as we did last time. We cubed all the way to a few L left but those last cubes did have a fair bit of trub I suspect.

 

[technobabble66]

Thanks husky.
FWIW, 700L at 100°C equates to 660L cold, or 660L boiling equates to 623L cold.
If we target ~680L hot, we should be able to get 30 cubes (at 21L each) plus 30L trub. So if we hit slightly under target, we should still get the 30 cubes with a little tipping at the end.

So what's the mash max volume we can do? Are we just using Idzy's MLTs?
From memory, Idzy's MLTs were 300L each, and we were hitting ~275L into each of them with the Westy12 clone. The Westy12 had 153kg of grain split between the 2 MLTs (so ratio ~3.7 L/kg), hitting ~460L final volume.
So if we adjust the final volume up to 630L, or rather 650-660L final volume (including the trub loss), then we're still hitting 6% with the 153kg grain.

That would suggest we can push the volume up to 660ish L (from what husky's said) and either keep the ~155kg grain bill to hit ~6% beer, or reduce it a little to make a 5% beer and make the mash a little easier (with ~130kg grain total).

Just my quick arithmetic, but might give us a few quantified options for a slightly more informed decision.

Mofox might be able to chip in with the figures from the stout in July to get a better idea of the numbers... Is there a Michael in the house?

 

[malt junkie]

I would say we're still leaving a crap load of sugars in those tuns, if we recirc the sparg in the first then pump to the second and recir, then a second sparg on the second to possibly do the same (but in reverse). I realise that KISS is the order of the day, but if the head brewer has a few hands on deck when switching this stuff around it won't be too difficult to push the efficiency 5 or more points. I think both Mofox and I ended up with a bucket of runnings left over @1050 odd, and that was just draining so we could empty tuns.