Vb Hop Schedule Please

[Bizier]

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I think, though, that you have to draw a line in the sand between The Brewer and The Brewer's Craft which is what is put to work to produce a traditional beer. And a barley-based drink which has come about through an intersection between brewing and food chemistry. Of course with the aid of chemistry you can make anything tightly reproducible. Being a biochemist myself, I'm aware of this. However, if some serious effort is put in.. (not *that* much, mind you) you can make a reproducible 'formula' using natural ingredients in their native forms at native concentrations (not extracts, not purified extracts from natural sources, not isomerases, etc which is the dodgespeak for 'nothing artificial' in a lot of these beers).

I think if one were to put a tight definition around what constitutes beer, most, if not all, mass scale 'beers' would fail. I'm not saying we should go with something like the reinheitsgebot because it wipes out a shedload of styles of beer. I think it would be quite easy for all Australian Craft Brewers to get together and come up with some sort of "HEART TICK" or something like that.. then all pool their moneys, and blitz the media.

Margarine looks like butter, but it is not butter.

nice ish idea - but if not as limiting as the reinheitsgebot, still pretty limiting and beers you wouldn't expect might end up on the wrong side of the exclusion fence.

Chimay - No tick (iso extract)
Many other Belgian Beers - No tick (Candy sugar, a natural ingredient but not in anything like its natural form)
Pliny the Elder - No tick (iso extract)

Budweiser - Tick


Shit beer is easy to define - beer that doesn't meet the expectations of the brewer. If the brewer has an audience of people who like beer that tastes of monkey semen, brews a beer that tastes of monkey semen & the audience likes it.... Expectations met, beer not shit. If it accidentally tastes exactly like Duvel instead of monkey semen, then while I might prefer that, it makes it a pretty shit monkey semen beer.

People thinking that a beer is shit that in fact is exactly how it is intended to be - that's about personal preference and a mismatch between the expectation of the brewer and the expectation of the drinker about the experience drinking the beer.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

... brews a beer that tastes of monkey semen ...

So you tried those beers I gave you. No need to say anything more.

 

[unrealeous]

Shit beer is easy to define - beer that doesn't meet the expectations of the brewer.

All a brewer needs to do to stop producing shit beer is to lower their expectations

I use a more subjective definition - a shit beer is any beer I don't like.

 

[mje1980]

Another thread runied by high horses and post count cowboys.

 

[pcmfisher]

You're still talking about preferences, pcmfisher.

But does anything else apart from personal taste really matter?

Shit beer is easy to define - beer that doesn't meet the expectations of the brewer. If the brewer has an audience of people who like beer that tastes of monkey semen, brews a beer that tastes of monkey semen & the audience likes it.... Expectations met, beer not shit. If it accidentally tastes exactly like Duvel instead of monkey semen, then while I might prefer that, it makes it a pretty shit monkey semen beer.

That pretty much sums it up for me :icon_cheers: :icon_cheers:

 

[Nick JD]

Another thread runied by high horses and post count cowboys.

"Dedicated to "tomfoolery, shinnanigans, and talking out ones arse"

I would think this is the perfect thread for your comments.

 

[Bizier]

nice ish idea - but if not as limiting as the reinheitsgebot, still pretty limiting and beers you wouldn't expect might end up on the wrong side of the exclusion fence.

Chimay - No tick (iso extract)
Many other Belgian Beers - No tick (Candy sugar, a natural ingredient but not in anything like its natural form)
Pliny the Elder - No tick (iso extract)

Budweiser - Tick

Aren't the above breweries using supercritical C02 hop extracts rather than iso hop extracts?

I do not really have any useful opinion on the argument. And this thread actually has me considering brewing a similar beer myself. Hell, it would be a welcome change from the last nightmare mash I did. My graphic was just because I was bored and everyone else is getting so worked up over a silly matter.

 

[bconnery]

Aren't the above breweries using supercritical C02 hop extracts rather than iso hop extracts?

I do not really have any useful opinion on the argument. And this thread actually has me considering brewing a similar beer myself. Hell, it would be a welcome change from the last nightmare mash I did. My graphic was just because I was bored and everyone else is getting so worked up over a silly matter.

Maybe, but the post TB was responding too excluded all types of extracts: "not extracts, not purified extracts from natural sources, not isomerases, etc which is the dodgespeak for 'nothing artificial' in a lot of these beers)."

A number of hefeweizens could be added to that list as they use hop extract.
I dont' have the names to hand but could get them.

I think the list of beers that wouldn't meet that criteria would include a lot of beers that many of us know and enjoy, and I don't mean VB.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Aren't the above breweries using supercritical C02 hop extracts rather than iso hop extracts?

Supercritical CO2 hop extracts are iso extracts - all the same stuff, just obtained in a different way.

But as bconnery said, i mainly meant to say that if you start down the track of saying "it isn't beer if....." then you are almost inevitably going to rule out some things that you might wish you hadn't.

 

[dougsbrew]

the weekend is upon us, i better get down to the bottle shop and get myself a bag of ice and
a carton of nice refreshing vb. vb is an abbreviation for very best.....
View attachment 44149

 

[Jimboley]

I thought POR bittering and cluster flavour addition was more Fourex than VB?

it is, thats just my version as just POR is not enough for my taste.
You could sub for POR or leave it out completely

 

[bradsbrew]

it is, thats just my version as just POR is not enough for my taste.
You could sub for POR or leave it out completely

So the general idea is if you use POR and cluster or just cluster alone, good call haysie might try that one with my next aussie mid strength, you will end up with an aussie style beer. Obviously malt, temp and yeast will contibute but you should end up with a good homebrew for the mates that arent into international beer styles. And if you can make a home brew that they call "just like VB/Fourex/Fosters/Carlton" you've done well.

Cheers

 

[Nick JD]

And if you can make a home brew that they call "just like VB/Fourex/Fosters/Carlton" you've done well.

Another beer to impress the megaswill diehards is a cross between a Euro Lager and an Aussie Lager. Pils malt and 20% sugaz; PoR in early; Saaz in late (or any noble hop). It's actually a top drop.

 

[bum]

But does anything else apart from personal taste really matter?

I don't know much about art but I know what I like.

^rhetoric you don't understand

 

[Nick JD]

I don't know much about art but I know what I like.

^rhetoric you don't understand

You have a complete grasp of loneliness, bum.

^Rhetoric you understand.

 

[Cocko]

vb is an abbreviation for very best.....

No, it is: 'Visitors Beer'

 

[bum]

You have a complete grasp of loneliness, bum.

^Rhetoric you understand.

No and yes.

8y 'no' I mean yeah but nah, i'm sure someone knows what I mean.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Supercritical CO2 hop extracts are iso extracts - all the same stuff, just obtained a different way

Hah - i speak through my rectum. This statement of mine is wrong as could be. While the vast majority of ISO extract does come from liquid or supercritical CO2 processes..... There is no reason the process must include pre-isomerising the alpha acids - and some dont.

So Bizier has it to rights - the breweries i mentioned do use hop extract, but they might be using plain old CO2 extract with all its lumps bumps and inefficiencies - and maybe there are some people out there who think that thats better than using ISO

My bad, needed my error pointed out to me

 

[speedie]

instead of going on about what is in the beer that micros brew
you should be giving more thought on how you can get this leeching goverment to stop taxing the life out of good hand built beer
then maybe the brewer would put more heart put into the beer than worring about mister exicise man